SDI DM training - expectations?

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stuartv

Seeking the Light
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I'm contemplating pursuing SDI Dive Master certification.

I am part of a non-profit group that conducts diving operations. Some for research. Some for fun, for members of the group. The group bylaws require that anyone leading a dive trip must be a DM or higher. My interest in being a DM is so that I can eventually organize and lead dive trips for the group. Initially, just fun, Recreational trips. I'm not interested in helping teach classes, becoming an instructor, or working at shop or for a dive charter operator.

I am specifically looking at SDI because, if I do it, the long term goal would be to get a TDI DM cert at the Trimix (or Adv Trimix) level and be able to lead dive trips at that level. The TDI requirements specifically say that a prereq is SDI DM and other agencies' DM cert is not accepted. A crossover from another agency's DM to SDI DM is required first.

From what I've seen and read, I have the impression that, in real life, there are two distinct approaches offered for obtaining a DM cert. Some shops/instructors expect/require anyone that is training with them to get a DM cert will do an internship. One tech instructor I talked to said that his DM candidates intern with him for around 6 months. I have the impression that many instructors who use this approach expect their DM candidates to be tank monkeys during that period. I.e. the DM candidates are treated as "the help" and expected to schlep tanks and do other grunt work. They are also expected to be available to assist their instructor with other (presumably, lower level) classes pretty much any time the instructor schedules a class.

The other approach seems to be that a person in training to be a DM is treated as a paying student/customer who is being taught a class. This approach is quite a bit shorter in terms of calendar time required to complete the DM certification.

Things that I wonder about are:

- Is it reasonable to want to go through DM training and expect to be treated as a paying customer, not the instructor's b!tch, even if the process is a longer "internship" kind of approach? I DO realize that part of the training involves working with OW divers and OW students (potentially) and those situations require a solid "do what the instructor tells me to do" attitude. But, that seems a bit different than "be at the shop at 7am and load all the tanks and gear for the class and meet me at the pool at 8. Then take all the tanks and gear back to the shop after class and rinse and stow everything."

- What happens when the DM cert is complete? Do I HAVE to become affiliated with a shop? If I don't affiliate with a shop, do I have to carry DM insurance? If so, how does that work without having a shop affiliation? If I'm not affiliated with a shop and not paying for insurance, what happens to my DM cert? Is it just listed in the SDI rolls as "Inactive" or something?

- If I want to be affiliated with a shop, but I don't have any desire to work for the shop in any capacity, what happens? Meaning, if I want to lead dives for my group, I have to be a DM. And, specifically, I have to be a DM that is affiliated with a shop. Presumably, that is for liability insurance reasons. How feasible is it to think I could be affiliated with a shop without doing any work for that shop? I just want to lead dive trips for my group. I don't want to lead trips for the shop or work as a DM helping to teach classes.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
 
You may find that SDI is not the best agency for what you want to do, since they have the requirement to be affiliated with a shop in order to function; not all agencies require this.

You WILL need insurance, otherwise your butt is not covered while leading a trip. You can get that on your own, you can get it through a shop.

Re affiliation with a shop, that is up to the shop. There are some pretty loose affiliations out there. There is certainly no agency requirement for any certain kind of 'work you do for them," but the shop may have some policies. Certainly, if you are leading a trip, they are going to want you to be covered and they want to be covered.

As to what you learn and how you do it, you will need to go through the full training program, including how to work with students and actually doing some work with students. After all, there is only one DM card, and it says you can do all those things, whether you intend to or not. There are not "trip-leader DM certs." In fact, you are not likely to learn anything at all about leading a trip during your DM class. It is just a union card that allows you to be sued, and focuses on helping with classes and guiding dives....not trip leading.

if a shop insists on having you be a tank monkey, tell them you'll go find another shop. You've got plenty to choose from. As an instructional assistant, you DO need to help with all the logistics...so there IS some tank handling, gear moving, etc,. but it should be in the context of professional training, not cheap labor.

The SDI standards require a 40-hour minimum course, 30 under direct supervision of the instructor. I guess in theory you could do that in a week, but there is a chunk of pool time and 10 OW dives required, plus lots of contact time with real students in classes that aren't scheduled all that often. PADI does not spec the number of hours and dives, just that a certain (long) list of things have to be done.

FYI, the prereq to be an SDI DM in order to be a TDI DM did not exist until 2007 (it used to be that any DM card would suffice), then it changed to be explicit that it was ONLY an SDI DM cert that was applicable.
 
Right. I read the standards and procedures document on the SDI website. I understand the need for working with other (OW or whatever) students and helping with related logistics. That's all fine. I'm not averse to that. It's just not the reason for pursuing this.

My main concern is that I would like to get good quality instruction - not just run through a DM Mill - but I don't have the personality to be in a situation where I feel like I'm being treated like somebody's free labor when I'm actually paying them. "Help me with this gear and these tanks" is fine. "Go get the tanks, load them, bring them to the pool, and get them inside and setup. I'll be there when everything is ready" or things in that vein would really gripe my wagger.

Given that my long term goal is (if I pursue DM at all) to be a TDI DM, does it really make sense to do Rec DM with anyone but SDI? Is there a different agency that I should aim at for Tech DM other than TDI?
 
I have never looked at the standards since I haven't been with SSI for a number of years. They have a Dive Guide rating that may fit your need if the majority of what you are wanting to do is lead dives.
 
TDI is the only agency I know that has a designated tech DM position.
PADI Tec has something similar, however, they just call it a Certified Assistant. The requirement to be one is that you must be a PADI DM or higher, a PADI EANx diver, have made at least 10 deco dives deeper than 130 ft (not including training dives), and that you hold the PADI Tec certification at the level at which you are assisting.
 
StuartTV, hit me with a PM and i'll be happy to talk to you about it. some of the info you've gotten here is just plain incorrect.
Doing an SDI DM program is a great idea. the program may vary between shops but i'll be happy to steer you in a good direction.
 
StuartTV, hit me with a PM and i'll be happy to talk to you about it. some of the info you've gotten here is just plain incorrect.
Doing an SDI DM program is a great idea. the program may vary between shops but i'll be happy to steer you in a good direction.
Might be valuable to correct what is "incorrect" here, so that others will benefit.
 
I've run into this a few times, have a good read of exactly what is required by your group. Specifically, do they require a person that; has taken DM training or is a current teaching status DM? This may impact your path.
 
StuartTV, hit me with a PM and i'll be happy to talk to you about it. some of the info you've gotten here is just plain incorrect.
@sheeper , since I'm the only one that has provided much info, I assume you are talking about me. I'd be very appreciative to know what is incorrect! Thanks.
 
@sheeper , since I'm the only one that has provided much info, I assume you are talking about me. I'd be very appreciative to know what is incorrect! Thanks.

i generally avoid public corrections on ScubaBoard and creating drama. But as long as you asked...

SDI does not require DM to be affiliated with a shop.
also, what the DM program entails is very dependent on who is giving it. Our DM program is intensive, hard and yes...focuses on how to lead trips, guide divers, assist instructors. And we make our candidates actually do those things. Not everyone passes our DM program for a reason. In our program, you have to really earn your DM.
happy to discuss it further...but privately....
 
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