Secret stupidity

[terson]

Hi Guys,
I'm sick and tired of the stupidity being shown by housing and port manufacturers?
I think that it is waaay past the time where they showed us, the end user, some common decency and let us know what they are /are not trying to develop. That way we can plan our own future purchases accordingly.
Right now i would love to know what Zen have in mind for the Olympus 60mm macro and the PEN system?
It's not rocket science, the whole U/W world has been buzzing with expectation about the arrival of this lens, it's finally here and the ONLY manufacturer who is openly admitting to any research is Nauticam and the only really pro-active person is Phil Rudin. Thank goodness for his honesty or we would all still be carrying candles!!!
Back to Zen, it's not hard to realise that there are a 'ship' load of PEN systems out and about in use and new units have just been released.
So what about it you guys, are you interested in what the end users think, or are we to carry on being treated with contempt???
I'm seriously thinking of going back to Pete Ladell and getting my stuff hand-made again. . .
Bruce

 

[jlyle]

Sometimes, not so "secret," but often disappointing. I contacted Ikelite shortly after the OM-D was released, only to be told they were NOT going to make a housing for this camera.

I suspect the manufacturers are closed mouth about their developmental work because it often doesn't pan out. How would we feel if manufaturer X let it be known they were going to make widget Y and didn't, for whatever reason. I, too, wish for more clarity, but understand.

Kudos to Phil for his input here!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deeper thoughts]

They can do much better

 

[terson]

I can't, for the love of me, work out why when a new 'top level' camera is released (D800), all the manufactuers are onto it like flies on stink, but in all reality there will only be a few hundred of these things taken underwater, then you find a company like Ike who builds a modular box for many different types of 'consumer' housings and they turn their backs on the consumer market, of which thousands of units find their way underwater, and once again concentrate on these top dogs? All Ike has to do is take their modular box and drill the holes for fittings in the correct spots and they've got a 'new' housing, yet they spend hundreds of hours on a housing for a couple of pros? Dumb, really dumb. Maybe I should be kinder and say bad decision making? Look at the popularity of the Nauticam housings for the EM-5 at the moment and compare those sales to the D800? People are downsizing, why do you think that the Japanese are making the cameras smaller?
Dumb, really dumb. . .
Bruce

 

[gert7to3]

Regarding Ikelite, they are also passing up a market for their strobes by not making housings for the mirrorless cameras.

I kind of wonder if there is not some greater impediment for Ikelite. Perhaps proprietary electronics issues with their strobes or the camera manufacturers?

I bought a Nikon P-6000/Ikelite housing and strobe, just before the mirrorless cameras were introduced. I figured I would be able to migrate over, if not with the first generation, but surly by the third. No such luck, definitely a puzzle.

 

[PhilW]

Ikelite's stance has puzzled me for a while too. I suspect they made a commercial judgement early on that M4/3 was going to be a niche format. But in retrospect it was wrong & their market share has gone to Nauticam, Olympus etc.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

Maybe Ikelite doesn't have a generic box template that would fit a 4/3 and have to design a new one..tooling and such is extremely high cost. All their other housing are almost all the same with holes drilled in different locations to accommodate the placement of buttons/dials on different cameras.

 

[terson]

Subject is getting side-tracked into a kicking for Ike, it's all manufacturers who need the kick up the bum!
I specifically asked for info from Zen yet they still choose to remain silent. . .this is the kind of crap that I'm talking about.
I remember Chris Parsons stating in this forum that the Zen website was waaay out of date and sorely needed updating, the site remains the same. . .years later?
Bruce

 

[PHIL RUDIN]

Bruce,

Thanks for the kind words regarding my comments in this forum and I would like to be honest with you.

First I have met all of the main players for Zen Underwater, Nauticam and NauticamUSA and I can assure you that none of them is stupid, quite the contrary. I four short years Nauticam has become one of the largest if not the largest builder of underwater housings in the world. The have the largest selection of Mirrorless camera housings on the planet and the largest number of custom ports for those housing. They have already announced an intent to build a custom port for the Olympus 60mm macro even though they do not yet even have a 60 macro lens in house. Zen, a much smaller company has only had the lens in house for three days now and have several other projects they are working on. Those projects include the DP-100EP08 4" optical glass dome port for Olympus PT-EP08 which was just added to the Zen Underwater web site in the last few days making the web site about as up to date as it can get.

I can understand your frustration over not having all your questions answered as fast as you would like but without even having a lens to test how would you move forward with a port design? Would you build it with or without a control for the focus limiting switch? Would you go into the gear making business since Olympus has no gear for the lens? Would you make the port for the lower cost market without knowing how well the lens will work zooming through the full range from 1:1 to infinity or would you just assume that it will work best in the macro limiting range which would at least double the price of the port if not more? Some of you just assume that Olympus and others provide lenses months in advance for these tests to be done which is just not the case unless you are as large as DPReview or a few others. Since the 12-50 and 60 macro are within a MM or two in length would you try to make a port that would work with both lenses? It takes a bit of time to resolve these issues and offer a product that is likely to turn a profit because that is after all the goal for both Nauticam and Zen Underwater.

What I can tell you is that I got my 60 macro today and I found it will not fit in the stock Nauticam port for the 14-42 kit lens. It will fit in the Nauticam flat Port 72 #36121 but it will be at least I would guess 15mm inside the port glass. This will not be to big a problem in focusing to 1:1 but it will be a big problem when adding a closeup lens because of the total distance between the front of the lens and back of the C/U lens will greatly reduce magnification.

Regarding Ikelite not builting a housing for mirrorless cameras it goes back to design. The Nauticam port system for the Mirrorless camera housings is a much different design than the port system for the DSLR housings. This results in a re-design from the ground up and that would cost Ikelite a ton. They would need a new size housing mold and all new port designs and at what price point? Would you try to compete with the excellent (for the price) Olympus market or would you try to compete with Nauticam at that price point. I think Ikelite made a wise choice staying out of mirrorless even though it has resulted in loss of sales. Look at how well it worked out for Aquatica they built a Sony NEX-5/5n housing with like three ports for the stock low end lenses and now appear to have quit the mirrorless race with no path forward for owners to the NEX-6/7. Aquatica builds excellent housings but it appears the mirrorless market is not for everyone.

Phil Rudin

 

[bvanant]

As Phil said, they are not stupid in any way but they are running a business. There is something known as the Osborne effect; if you announce a cool new product too soon, people stop buying your current ones and if you are a bit late on your promise (as you will be) then they buy something else. Also how many people work at Zen? How would you like to work there and have to answer (1 by 1) all of the 6000 people asking for what your future plans are. How many of the questions come from Aquatica or S&S, or Fisheye etc. dealers asking to see what they need to say to their customers.

Getting new products out is hard work; doing it while answering thousands of questions about the future is way harder.
Bill