Should I get a Second stage alt or air2

[simonru]

I have had a recent issue with the Air 2.... just for information....

I have posted it in the Scubapro section. But in essence.... my Air2 failed and it would not deliver air to my BCD, nor could I oral inflate.

I was not in a happy place at the end of that dive!!

 

[industrious95]

I used to have both because I like the button placement on the Air-2. Now I just have the Air-2 to reduce danglies. However, I often dive with a pony since I'm a solo diver so I have complete redundancy.

Agreed on the Pony issue. Two regulators sharing the same first stage and tank still leaves 2 out of 3 potential failure points. If you're going to provide backup for an OOA situation, why not have a solution that also helps in case of equipment failure?

When I travel, where it's impractical to bring a Pony and unlikely to be able to rent one, I'd prefer the Octo to an air 2. Clip the hose to your BC or wear it around your neck on a lanyard so it doesn't drag.

I think the idea that having one less hose makes you "more streamlined" is kind of silly, although I hear it a lot. With all the gear a diver wears, the last thing we are is "streamlined." I place "utility value" way above "streamlining."

 

[rx7diver]

I have had a recent issue with the Air 2.... just for information....

I have posted it in the Scubapro section. But in essence.... my Air2 failed and it would not deliver air to my BCD, nor could I oral inflate.

I was not in a happy place at the end of that dive!!

Simonru,

You wrote in your post in the Scubapro section:

"But on surfacing from a dive I tried to inflate and nothing went into my jacket.... it just came straight out of the air2.
"I tried to oral inflate.... nothing was staying in.
"Fortunately I was just nicely weighted and was close to the boat...."

(My emphasis.) I don't think we can stress too much to new divers just how important it is to be properly weighted. Yours is a perfect example of why this is so important!


Another serious concern I have for new divers pertains to the fact that *any* power inflator (including an AIR 2-type device) might fail to *release* gas from a diver's inflated BC when the diver is ascending. All of us should be prepared for such a failure. My Scubapro Classic Stab Jacket has an over-pressure relief valve on it's right shoulder, and this valve can be readily tripped to vent gas from the SSJ--which provides an option if the power inflator should fail to release air when the diver is ascending.

However, my Halcyon Pioneer singles wing--like most wings that I'm aware of--does *not* have such a relief valve on the upper part of the wing--which can lead to a runaway ascent if the power inflator should fail to release air when the diver is ascending, and the diver is not prepared for such a failure. (I use an AIR 2 with my Pioneer wing.)

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

P.S. I've used an AIR 2 "forever" (since 1987), and I've never suffered a failure using it.

 

[redacted]

I have had a recent issue with the Air 2.... just for information....

I have posted it in the Scubapro section. But in essence.... my Air2 failed and it would not deliver air to my BCD, nor could I oral inflate.

I was not in a happy place at the end of that dive!!

I am banned from the Scubapro forum so I will address the issue here.

As a Scubapro fan (I am also, somewhat) you need to understand that your alternative of a Scubapro power inflator has the same design as the Air2 for inflating and deflating your BCD. Don't simply blame the Air2. You need to understand what exactly caused your problem before you attempt to "fix" it. It is not clear to me that this was entirely an equipment failure. Perhaps you could provide more details.

The power inflate and manual inflate are pretty much separate and independent functions with an Air2. What makes you think the problem was withing the Air2? Are you sure it was not two separate and independent failures?

 

[simonru]

The air2 has gone for a service and was "fixed" So I am still waiting to find out why it failed.
If it was anything other than the air2 failing (in whatever way) replacing the air2 with a normal inflator wouldn't have solved the problem (which it did)

My MAIN concern was I was unable to orally inflate. I don't know what a solution would be since I couldn't stop the flow of air OUT of the BCD through the air2. 2 separate failures? Perhaps, but with the same unit.

---------- Post added May 20th, 2014 at 10:55 AM ----------

I am banned from the Scubapro forum so I will address the issue here.

Would love to know why?

---------- Post added May 20th, 2014 at 11:07 AM ----------

Agreed on the Pony issue. Two regulators sharing the same first stage and tank still leaves 2 out of 3 potential failure points. If you're going to provide backup for an OOA situation, why not have a solution that also helps in case of equipment failure?

When I travel, where it's impractical to bring a Pony and unlikely to be able to rent one, I'd prefer the Octo to an air 2. Clip the hose to your BC or wear it around your neck on a lanyard so it doesn't drag.

I think the idea that having one less hose makes you "more streamlined" is kind of silly, although I hear it a lot. With all the gear a diver wears, the last thing we are is "streamlined." I place "utility value" way above "streamlining."

I'm also a "Self Reliant" diver and recently sidemount. I have a pony for diving at the coast here. For travelling I am considering a sidemount set up (Hollis SM50 with MK25 first stages) since standard size tanks are readily available. I could dive with a couple of 12s 10s or even 7s if they're available.

 

[flots am]

Would love to know why?

While I have no direct knowledge, I beleive it was his sunny disposition towards controlled parts availability.

 

[redacted]

The air2 has gone for a service and was "fixed" So I am still waiting to find out why it failed.
If it was anything other than the air2 failing (in whatever way) replacing the air2 with a normal inflator wouldn't have solved the problem (which it did)

My MAIN concern was I was unable to orally inflate. I don't know what a solution would be since I couldn't stop the flow of air OUT of the BCD through the air2. 2 separate failures? Perhaps, but with the same unit.

---------- Post added May 20th, 2014 at 10:55 AM ----------



Would love to know why?

Please tell me a bit more about what happened when you tried to inflate.

Manual inflation may require a bit of practice (like many things in scuba). The inflate/deflate button must be fully depresses or the air will just be released from the release valve.

On the power inflate, were there bubbles and where did they come from? If the LPI connector was attached, then there should have been gas going somewhere. Could you recreate the failure?

I believe I was banned by a board moderator, not the Scubapro rep, for not graciously welcoming them and their poor excuse for an anti-consumer USA business model that is not legal in some countries.

 

[kelemvor]

The dual failure sounds odd to me as well. On the air2, there's 3 buttons. The red power inflate, grey dump/manual inflate, and grey regulator "purge". Manual inflate imo is slightly more difficult to operate than with a regular inflator. The regulator purge is in the position you'd normally find a dump/manual inflate button on a regular power inflator.

Seems like for both functions to fail there would have to be a large hole in the wing, inflator, or hose leading from the inflator to the wing. I'm curious what they say was wrong with it.

 

[John_B]

However, my Halcyon Pioneer singles wing--like most wings that I'm aware of--does *not* have such a relief valve on the upper part of the wing--which can lead to a runaway ascent if the power inflator should fail to release air when the diver is ascending, and the diver is not prepared for such a failure. (I use an AIR 2 with my Pioneer wing.)

I used to own a Pioneer, it will dump plenty of air at the inflator if vertical or the back dump valve if horizontal. But the real solution is being able to disconnect the inflator hose at a moments notice. It's a good drill to practice.

Speaking of practice, it's well worth practicing breathing off that Air2 while managing your ascent, since the inflator/deflator are coupled with the second stage.

 

[kelemvor]

I used to own a Pioneer, it will dump plenty of air at the inflator if vertical or the back dump valve if horizontal. But the real solution is being able to disconnect the inflator hose at a moments notice. It's a good drill to practice.

Speaking of practice, it's well worth practicing breathing off that Air2 while managing your ascent, since the inflator/deflator are coupled with the second stage.

I've found the air2 is FAR easier to disconnect than a regular power inflator. Owing mainly to the much larger connector on the power inflator hose. Of course, if you disconnect, you no longer have a secondary air source. Probably not that big of a deal since your dive is over anyway.