Shoulder Pull Dump?

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Any chance that you will offer such a convenience?

Guy

Don't let that "lack of convenience" stop you.

If you really like their set up, go ahead and try it. Depending on how set on your ways is your status, you may get used to dump the air by lifting the hose or like others mentioned using the valve on the lower back.

If you don't, and found yourself missing the convenience of pulling down to deflate, then just replace the inflation assembly with one that has the pulling that you like.

I did that... When I first bought the Halcyon plate and wing I loved it. Like you, everything felt just right immediately. However, there were 2 things that even after a bunch of dives "getting used to" I decided I didn't care for:

1-The lower back dump was just a cord with a tiny knot at the end. Oh I hated that, talked to them and got a line about entanglement. Well I decided to risk entanglement but I attached a little thingy that I could hold on to when pulling. This was in '96 or '97 not once I was close to any entanglement. I've heard they now have something at the end of that cord.

2- Like you, I missed the convenience of just pulling down to deflate the wing. As a general rule I suck the air out of the wing before jumping in the water, but there are times I hit the surface and there's still some air that needs to be vented, well I don't care for the lifting of the hose to release the air. I thought I could get used to it, but I didn't. So I cut off the canvas material holding that corrugated hose and installed an Oceanic assembly in its place. Quite a bit of time and dives later the system is still working as intended.

Don't miss out on a great piece of gear because absolutely everything is not to your liking. They have a reason for their design and you have a reason for your desires. If their wings are half as good as they were when they first started making them you'll have a set up that will last you for hundreds and hundreds of dives.
 
IF I HAD A CENT for every drysuit diver ive seen pop feet up, due to trying to control their bouyancy with a rear kidney dump, i'd be a very rich man...

Get really p'issed seeing divers take cave gear, and believe that its suitable for open water, without thinking about the consequences...

So, you know what? add a dump valve to your inflator hose... might actually save your life... those who say "failure point",, YAWN...... so is jumping off a boat with a hose wrapped around your neck... :D
 
If the shoulder pull dump goes, you loose all your buoyancy and have no way to get new air in the bag. Basically you are screwed unless you can swim up your gear (possible, but difficult in thick neoprene).

Seriously? Is this how people dive these days? so that's why I hear people saying it isn't possible to dive without a BC.

If I was to depend on a wing to actually get my behind to the surface I would definitely have a a lift bag tucked in somewhere just in case.
 
Hi,

If you are willing to pay the shipping charges I am willing to send you (2) Dive Rite shoulder dump valves.

They have been sitting in my spare parts box for the past 2 years.

Jim breslin
 
I am not sure how much is the propensity to fail, rather the severity of the failure.

If the lower dump were to fail, you would still have buoyancy (or at least most of it) in the vertical position.

you actually have most of it in the horizontal position as well. i unscrewed my dump valve on one dive and had to dump gas to get negative so that my buddy stopped tumbling me in the water column while he tried to screw the valve back on.

that happened a long time ago, and after that we added simply ensuring the dump valve was screwed in to gear checks to avoid that.

If the shoulder pull dump goes, you loose all your buoyancy and have no way to get new air in the bag. Basically you are screwed unless you can swim up your gear (possible, but difficult in thick neoprene).

yeah, that's going to be a significantly more difficult to deal with, although even with the halcyon BP/W you can still get a failure at the elbow if you gank on the corrugated hose hard enough.
 
1-The lower back dump was just a cord with a tiny knot at the end. Oh I hated that, talked to them and got a line about entanglement. Well I decided to risk entanglement but I attached a little thingy that I could hold on to when pulling. This was in '96 or '97 not once I was close to any entanglement. I've heard they now have something at the end of that cord.

This is to prevent that knob from getting stuck on something and causing the dump valve to stick open and cause the wing to fail to maintain buoyancy. It can be a nasty surprise at the least if you jump in only to have your wing auto-deflate and start to cannonball to the bottom instead of floating.

The knob at the end of the cord is required by European CE regulations (aka some faceless bureaucrat) and a lot of divers cut that off. Halcyon probably has to stop short of simply publishing recommendations on cutting it off.
 
Seriously? Is this how people dive these days? so that's why I hear people saying it isn't possible to dive without a BC.

If I was to depend on a wing to actually get my behind to the surface I would definitely have a a lift bag tucked in somewhere just in case.

I learned to dive with a horse collar 32+ years ago, so I am keenly aware of MY ability to dive without a BC. Still, with the advent of stretchy neoprene that crushes with depth and larger tanks, I find swimming up from depth a significant task at times without any assistance from a BC.

Regardless, if I am going to haul a piece of gear around, I am going to make sure it us the most reliable gear I can find. It may not be the best, the newest or the most expensive, but reliability is a key issue for me.
 
I don't think Halcyon will offer a pull dump, but if you are horizontal, you can easily dump from the rear dump without having to lift the inflator hose.

Pull dump hoses can not only fail by the wire breaking, but the stress from repeated tugging can fatigue the plastic and cause the entire hose to come off when you pull -- this is one of the only total wing failures you can have, where you cannot add any gas, and the wing won't hold any in any position that is reasonable to dive.

I much prefer a pull dump inflator. From an ergonomic standpoint it makes absolutely no sense to separate the inflate and deflate funtion. If you are inflating the Bc and you add too much air, then you simply pull down on the inflator a little and can instantly correct. You don't even have to move your hand, it can remain exactly where it is when the inflation was done. You don't even have to move your fingers to find the deflate button on the inflator mechanism

Thiis seems much, much easier and simpler and more efficient than dropping the inflator and then moving your arm back down to your butt and then trying to locate a little knot on a little string and then dumping air and if you mess up and dump too much... well then start over.

If the internal pull dump wire breaks, it does not necessarily threaten the integrity of the BC, If/when it fails, then the Bc functions EXACTLY like a BC without a pull dump.. it is not really a failure of any consequence. If you are used to gently tugging on the inflator and feeling the valve open, it is quite evident when the cable has broken. However, I have broken SEVERAL internal cables,

The idiots seem to all use SS cable covered with plastic sleeve that always corrodes and breaks where the metal crimp compromises the plastic wire sleeve. I have even written to aqualung/sea quest about this telling them that they could use 300 lb monofilament which is probably stronger, cheaper and will never fail like this. That is what I always use when I fix the broken internal wires.

As for repeated tugging causing stress and eventual breakage of plastic, isn't that exactly how a rear pull dump operates?

Also I would much prefer a pull dump inflator if I should be in an emergency situation where i am ascending in a vertical posiion, face to face with the victim. It will be very simple to tug down on my inflator or the victim's BC rather than reaching around and trying to find my rear dump, or to even find the deflate button on my inflator and then lifting the hose. Plus in the verical position the rear dump does not function unless the BC/bladder is almost entirely filled.

I dislike having to locate the deflate button and to raise my inflator to dump air, it is an extra step that I don't want when my hands are filled with stuff and things are happening fast underwater.

However, I will admit that choosing a simple elbow versus a pull dump assembly on the inflator does eliminate a potential failure point. For me, until I get burned, I will generally opt for the convience of the pull dump.

I also think that many of the stories you hear about people yanking the inflator down so hard that it damages the BC (or puills the hose out) are probably caused by the use of a single zip tie rather than what I consider to be a decent attachment device. The hose separates because of a crappy attachment rather than the hose itself failing.

Also, my current favorite BC has no rear dump, just a plastic screw on plate. I figure eliminating the rear pull dump is reducing the complexity of my BC and eliminates a potential failure point (the springs in those things can and do fail; did halcyon have a recall on those springs?)

Also, we have all heard about the string on the rear dump getting caught on something and venting the BC and preventing it from operating. So having a rear dump is sorta like accepting a known failure point just for convenience isn't it?


to the OP: just replace the elbow with a pull dump mechanism and while you are at it, ditch that inflator and put an AIR 2 on it.:D:D:D
 
I do think there is a difference between pull dumps and rear dumps. To dump from the rear, I hold the string in my fingers, and roll my hand against the top of the dump. The "pull" is thus only against the plastic cover, and is not pulling the plastic assembly away from the inner bladder. With a pull dump on the inflator hose, you are actually pulling against the junction of the hose with the bladder.

Honestly, I probably use my inflator hose 90% of the time in OW. It's awfully easy to roll up just a little bit with the left shoulder (and I have to do that to dump the dry suit, anyway) and lift the hose. It only has to be a tiny bit higher than the orifice of the wing to vent. In a cave, where I have more air in my wing (because I run my suit really tight in caves) I use the rear dump a ton, because I can't afford to pitch head up at all a lot of the time.
 
Like quite a few others, I originally trained with no BCD at all. Horse collars were an option, but only for the surface. My first BCD experience tried to kill me, or honestly, my failure to retrain almost did. But that is another story. Since then I have dived all kinds of rigs, and any one of them is preferable to no BCD at all, except for an occasional skin or swim suit dive where none is needed.

I came to love the shoulder dump in the various bcd's I have used, BUT when I started training with a wing I learned to use the butt dump almost exclusively. (It is still possible to dump by raising the inflator hose above you.) Horizontal ascents and descents, I was taught, are more easily controlled in this position, which I quickly learned is true. Easy to be face to face with a buddy, and stay together, and assist each other and communicate in this position. Easier, and safer in so many ways than the vertical ascents and descents I always had practiced before.

The butt dump is FAST! If you need to make an instant correction, and you are already in the horizontal position, a light pull, and done! Takes some getting used to that light touch, but the control is instantaneous.

I am a long way from mastering a wing, but it did not take long to convince this old dog that some new tricks make sense.
 
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