Solve the Diving First Aid Scenario!

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divemed06:
Snowbear is a wise one! Not bad H2A and Johny...but DCS wouldn't be my first instinct...although you might be correct..here's a little tip...always try to find the MOI (mechanism of injury)...ie. Why is he laying on his back?
DCS...maybe
Slip and fall.... seems to fit the scenario

Can anyone name/state the priorities in dealing with this type of scenario (well, any type of First Aid Scenario for that matter)?

P.S.: There's never an absolute right in these sort of things...but there are certain standards that we should try to follow. Good luck.

I missed the remote area thing, I didn't read all the way through.

In any case, the priorities are to establish the ABC's, then stabilize the patient, whether that means controlling bleeding, immobilizing the neck, providing warmth, oxygen, whatever.

In such a remote area, I'm not sure if I'd move the patient or not. Depends on how close to civilization I was and what the weather/conditions/wild animals were like for that area. If it's a nice sunny 70 degree day and help is a 20 minute drive, I'd stabilize him as best I could, leave him there and go get an ambulance. If it were more, or it was cold and rainy, load him up in the back seat and get moving.
 
he prolly hit his head real hard, and that's what brought on the seizure...

i hadn't thought about leaving him there and going for help... it does seem
better than moving him.
 
Snowbear:
Head injury, DCS, AGE, epilepsy, diabetes, stroke, cardiac arrest, pulmonary embolism, drugs, hypotension, hypoxia, hyperthermia. (I left out OxTox on purpose :wink:)


I like it! All right....after trying to "wake-up" your buddy, you realize he's uncon. You have 3 choices...leave him to get help, take him with you and get help or stay put and start rescusitating him. Let's say you decide to assess his ABCs... you've done a jaw thrust (because we're thinking of a possible head/neck injury (MOI) and you assess for breathing...he's not breathing you attempt to ventilate (give breaths) and the air is having a really tough time going in...his chest doesn't elevate...you re-attempt to ventilate and air still doesn't go in...you realize that his tongue is very swollen and has basically taken over his entire mouth...what do you do?
 
Unfortunately with my training, any person I come across unconscious has to be treated as a possible spinal injury... unless there were trained witnesses who saw the injury take place. Since that didn't happen, and I don't have a backboard handy, I'm not allowed to move him.

Any WFR-WEMT's around? I'm thinking you folks have different protocols in place for this situation.
 
archman:
Unfortunately with my training, any person I come across unconscious has to be treated as a possible spinal injury... unless there were trained witnesses who saw the injury take place. Since that didn't happen, and I don't have a backboard handy, I'm not allowed to move him.

Any WFR-WEMT's around? I'm thinking you folks have different protocols in place for this situation.


Good thinking Arch....wilderness protocols do vary...can anyone provide me the criteria for clearing a c-spine in a "wilderness" setting? It's starting to get intersting...
 
H2Andy:
he prolly hit his head real hard, and that's what brought on the seizure...
Could be - but again - You sure about that? You didn't see it happen, and it was several minutes before he had the seizure you saw (was it his first?)
Nothing has been revealed yet about the physical assessment of this patient, other than the position found and the seizure.

Ah - and now the lack of an airway, respirations and the swollen tongue.....
 
Ok...I'll be nice...here's the protocl for Remote/Wilderness C-Spine clearance as per Wilderness Medical Associates (other agencies will vary slightly...)

Source: http://www.wildmed.com/field_protocols/spine_man_protocol05.01.html#top

In an urban context all patients that are involved in a traumatic event that may have caused a spine injury are treated as though they are spine injured. In a wilderness context, clearing a potential spine injury when there is a positive mechanism for such an injury requires careful evaluation that focuses on patient reliability, nervous system function, and spinal column stability. Adequate time must be allowed for the evaluation. Repeat examinations may be necessary.


Assess for mechanism of spine injury. If positive or uncertain mechanism exists, protect the spine by hand stabilizing it in the in-line position.
Do a thorough evaluation including a history and physical examination. To rule out a spine injury the patient must meet all of the following criteria:
Patient must be reliable. The patient must be cooperative, sober, and alert, and must be free of other distracting injuries significant enough to mask the pain and tenderness of the spine injury.
Patient must be free of spine pain and tenderness.
Patient must have normal motor/sensory function in all four extremities:
¨ Finger abduction/adduction or hand/wrist extension (check both hands)
¨ Foot plantar flexion/extension or great toe dorsiflexion (check both feet)
¨ Normal sensation to pain and light touch in all four extremities
¨ If reduced function in one particular extremity can be attributed with certainty to a condition unrelated to a potential spine injury (wrist fracture, for example), that deficit alone will not preclude ruling out a spine injury, because the motor/sensory assessment contain built-in redundancy.
If a spine injury has not been ruled out, the patient must be fully immobilized except in the following case. In a wilderness context, with a reliable patient who has normal motor/sensory function, if spine pain and tenderness can be isolated to the lumbar area, the patient's head may be left free. Likewise, if the injury involves only the c-spine, the hips may be left free for patient comfort.
Transport patient to hospital.
 
Snowbear:
Could be - but again - You sure about that? You didn't see it happen, and it was several minutes before he had the seizure you saw (was it his first?)
Nothing has been revealed yet about the physical assessment of this patient, other than the position found and the seizure.

Ah - and now the lack of an airway, respirations and the swollen tongue.....


I like you Snowbear...I can tell your a Medic/ED Doc or something along the lines buy your train of thought... I agree, other possibilities shouldn't be ruled out...what do you want to do you about that airway? (and no...you have no airway kit or crash cart available!!)
 
Clearing the spine on an unconscious patient is pretty hard and almost impossible to do reliably. I'd treat the patient as if they had a spine injury and, if I decided to move them, immobilize the spine as best I could with what I had before doing so.
 
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