Some questions from a newbie.

[VPescado]

Hi,

I have been lurking for a few weeks but this is my first post.

I am signed up to get my SSI OW Cert (first class is tonight), and have gotten through all of the study guides.

I have been giving some thought to how to deal with various scenarios (seems like now is a better time than when they come up) and have some questions.

I am hesitant to bring them all up in class as 1) My girlfriend, who is also in the class, is already nervous enough about what can go wrong and 2) I am concerned that I will convince the instrutor that I am a morbid freak.

Anyway here are some things I have thought about and I would be happy for any feedback.

I do realize that all of these are very unlikely, but I'm still curious about how to handle them.

1) Vomiting. What happens if my breakfast suddenly decides to make a U-turn? Breathing through my nose doesn't seem promising, and it seems unlikely that I would be able to vomit, purge, breath and repeat without asperating seawater or vomit. Should I just take my chances with an emergency buoyant ascent?

2) Failure of first stage. My octo (by the way, why are they called that anyway?) isn't going to help. I suppose the ideal solution is to get air from my buddy or use a pony bottle if I have one, but what about buoyancy? My BC is probably empty if I am on the bottom, will my buddys BC be able to lift both of us and the equipment? Or worse yet if I am separated from my body? Should I just shed the scuba unit/weights and try to swim up?

2B) Assuming my buddy did share air with me (for whatever reason), am I obligated to reimburse him for an air-fill? If I share air should I expect re-imbursement? And is the re-imbursement pro-rated?

3) LP Hose failure. In the event of a LP hose failing, especially if it happens at the connection to the first stage, will I still have use of my power inflator? I suspect the LP pressure as seen by the 2nd stage and power inflator will be pretty close to ambient pressure. It seems that I should be able to generate enough partial vacuum (by inhaling) to get air out of the second stage (although I have my doubts about purging), but will there be enough pressure to inflate the BC?

Thanks!

 

[Wingtip]

VPescado once bubbled...
1) Vomiting. What happens if my breakfast suddenly decides to make a U-turn? Breathing through my nose doesn't seem promising, and it seems unlikely that I would be able to vomit, purge, breath and repeat without asperating seawater or vomit. Should I just take my chances with an emergency buoyant ascent?

Vomitus travels nicely through the diaphragm. Once convulsions are complete remove reg and purge any big chunks, replace and resume breathing normally.

VPescado once bubbled...

2) Failure of first stage. My BC is probably empty if I am on the bottom, will my buddys BC be able to lift both of us and the equipment? Or worse yet if I am separated from my body? Should I just shed the scuba unit/weights and try to swim up?

You can still breathe from a free-flowing reg and may get a chance during your class to try this out. As for lift you don't use the bc to get you up to the surface anyway. As a last resort you might dump weight but you should be able to swim it up. You will probably have to share air before reaching the surface depending on how fast your losing psi and how much gas you had when this started.

VPescado once bubbled...

2B) Assuming my buddy did share air with me (for whatever reason), am I obligated to reimburse him for an air-fill? If I share air should I expect re-imbursement? And is the re-imbursement pro-rated?

Nope, part of being a buddy is keeping enough in reserve for such a thing happening. I'd likely be hesitant to dive again with someone who runs out of air on me but I wouldn't expect air-fill reimbursement.

VPescado once bubbled...

3) LP Hose failure. In the event of a LP hose failing, especially if it happens at the connection to the first stage, will I still have use of my power inflator? I suspect the LP pressure as seen by the 2nd stage and power inflator will be pretty close to ambient pressure. It seems that I should be able to generate enough partial vacuum (by inhaling) to get air out of the second stage (although I have my doubts about purging), but will there be enough pressure to inflate the BC?

It has an oral inflation opening for this reason.

 

[chickdiver]

First- take a deep breath and relax!

1. You can vomit through a regulator just fine, no need to remove it from your mouth. The best option here is to remain calm and when you are finished vomiting, make a normal ascent with your buddy.

2. You will learn about this as part of your training. The best option in this sceanrio is to use your buddy's alternate air source (octopus) and make a normal ascent orally inflating the BC if needed (mot likely wont be needed, as you will be ascending). A bouyant ascent is the least favorable option. As I said, this should be covered extensively in your training.

2b. We typically aren't that picky

3. Most of thesed typesof failures occure when assembling gear and can be dealt with before the dive. If it should spontaneosly occur- you can orally inflate the BC as needed, and most LP hose leaks aren't fast enough to really present a problem.

Good luck- and remember this is fun, relax!!

Chickdiver
NAUI OW/Tech Instructor

 

[redacted]

1. you can remove reg & blow; or you can let it go right thru the reg. I have no experience. You do chew your food well, don't you?

2. Very very few failures result in no air. But should the need arise, your buddy and/or the surface should be reachable. You will get to practice both. Oh, and you don't use your BC to lift you and you should be able to swim yourself & gear to the surface.

2b. That is why it is important to carry a dive slate; so you can work out charges & establish the necessary contracts. It's on the house.

3. See #2. Bigger problem may be a brake at delivery end leaving the hose whipping around. Lots of bubbles to help with the confusion.

By the way, if she turns out to be a good diver, keep her.

 

[pipedope]

Is the uncontrolable laughter that may result when you see the feeding frenzy of local fish.

Just blow the chunks right through the reg.

Most hose failures are not total but are leaks of variable rates, usually slow enough that you can make an easy ascent to the surface. Yes LP or HP hoses. I have had both blow, or actually leak, that is blow bubbles. Not a big problem. On most boats you can replace the hose from spares and do the next dive just fine.

Sharing air is part of diving.

First stage failures are very rare, but with a buddy you can get more air.
Sharing air is just another part of diving.

Did I mention that sharing air is a normal part of diving?

Feeding the fish is also a part of diving. Garibladi love snot.

Feel free to ask any and all questions of your instructor. If you are worried about disturbing anyone you can ask in private but if you are wondering then someone else in the class is also and will appreceate your asking.

Enjoy the class, talking about gross is another part of diving. Well sometimes anyway.

 

[Wristshot]

You have gotten good answers from all of the others, but here is just a little bit more.

1) I have ralphed through my regulator a couple of times, and it really is not a problem. Just breathe very carefully afterwards. Relax. Stay calm. Panic is your enemy, not vomit.

2) Failures are rare, but they can happen, and that is why divers are trained and why redundant air sources are recommended. The simplest redundant air supply is your buddy. You do have a buddy right?

You are correct, if you have a catastrophic failure of your first stage then you will not have air available at either second stage.

I have no idea why it is called an Octo. Maybe because it is one of the "tentacles" hanging off of a diver. Somebody out there must know the real reason.

At the "bottom" your BC is not really empty; it just has very little air in it. You are supposed to be neutrally bouyant, so it should take just a small amount of effort to start yourself moving upwards. As you ascend, the small amount of air in your BC will expand, and that will slowly increase your ascent rate.

When I first started (like many beginners) I thought that you added air to your BC to ascend. Now I usually release air as soon as I start to ascend. Otherwise the ascent rate can exceed recommended levels. The rule of thumb that I hear most often is to ascend slower than the small bubbles.

Your buddy's BC is not expected to lift you. You should each adjust your own bouyancy. If you absolutely have to add air to your BC then A) you were way too negatively buoyant and B) at that point you should start thinking about dumping a little bit of weight. You could add air orally after breathing from your buddy, but at that point you will probably be excited, and your filled lungs will probably start you upward already. Get ready to start releasing air so you don't rocket clear of the surface.

When you get to the surface, you will need to inflate your BC orally to assist in floating. At that point you would normally be breathing normally in air, unless the conditions were really really bad. Again if it so bad at the surface that you have trouble inflating manually then it wight be time to think about dumping (or handing off) a little bit of weight.

As with many aspects of diving, panic is your worst enemy.

If you are "separated from my body" then you are dead and you have achieved a higher plane. Seriously, if you had a catastrophic loss of air, and your buddy is not around, then you need to make an emergency ascent. Your instructor should be teaching you all of the types of ascents, and what order you should do them in. If you have not been taught how to ascend under different levels of emergency, and when to use each, then ask your instructor to cover those things. If he/she does not, then demand another instructor to teach you those aspects.

2B) You are mot obligated to repay your buddy (or anyone else) for an air fill. However, you should buy a drink or dinner or a Buick for the person that just "saved your life".

I would never expect a victim I rescued to pay me for an air fill. I would expect profuse thanks and serious investigation and actions to ensure that it wouldn't happen again.

If I needed air from someone, I would thank then early and often. If they asked for reimbursement for their air, I would buy them a couple of fills at the LDS of their choice and then I would tell everyone on ScubaBoard about the cheap ba$$ard and I would be unlikely to dive or associate with that person again. I might even explain the concept of Kharma to them. All the while still thanking them.

3) Others have covered this already. Remember not to panic. Remember that a BC is not an elevator. Relax, and ascend normally, and don't dive again until you are sure that everything is safe.

-------------
Just flappin' my gums 'cause I am bored at work,

Wristshot

 

[Lamar Jr]

The questions you have asked are valid concerns which I suspect are shared by many people when they are just starting to learn to dive. You should not, under any circumstance, be reluctant to ask these questions and discuss your concerns in class, even in front of your SO. These are important topics that you and everyone else in your class need to know how to deal with.

Actually, all of these topics (except for 2B, which was a little off the wall) should be covered in class, at least they were in mine. A significant part of OW course training is learning what to do or not do when things go wrong.

Have fun in your course and enjoy the diving!

 

[VPescado]

Wristshot once bubbled...

2B) You are not obligated to repay your buddy (or anyone else) for an air fill. However, you should buy a drink or dinner or a Buick for the person that just "saved your life".

I would never expect a victim I rescued to pay me for an air fill. I would expect profuse thanks and serious investigation and actions to ensure that it wouldn't happen again.

If I needed air from someone, I would thank then early and often. If they asked for reimbursement for their air, I would buy them a couple of fills at the LDS of their choice and then I would tell everyone on ScubaBoard about the cheap ba$$ard and I would be unlikely to dive or associate with that person again. I might even explain the concept of Kharma to them. All the while still thanking them.

As a clarification, I was kidding with question 2B.

Just wanted to clear the air - or more acurately the water (what is all that stuff anyway. . .wait its coming out of my buddy's reg . . .and the fish are eating it. Eeeeeewww!)

 

[Tekdiver10]

1. Yumm fish food.

2. If your buddy is no were around to give you air, you should just start kicking toward the surface as the air expands in your BC you wil have to vent some so you dont shoot to the surface. And if you can't start kicking up you should just drop your weights. You should never be so overweighted that you cant drop your weights, unless you are diving double steels and in that instance you would have a dry suit.

2b. Air for filling a scuba tank 3.00$. Saving your buddy's life, priceless.

3. Depends which hose fails, but usually you can oraly inflate your BC underwater.

 

[IzzyTahil]

the board has given you points - heres more:

vomiting - most people feel before they get in the water - if you feel sick topside decide your course of action, ie to get in or not. I believe that if you feel sick, stay aboard rather than chance vomiting in water. Dont worry about ridicule or peer pressure. if you get in vomit thru the reg, purge if needed. ascend slowly always!

1st stage failure - having a buddy is great but its better if you are carrying your own air. do this with, in my opinion, at least a 30cf pony. This way you dont have to shed weight or anything like that, or for that matter, deplete your buddys air!

If you share air or air is shared with you, there should never be expectation of payment as you guys are a team.

LP (BC) hose failure - infalte your BC orally.

dive safe