Spare Air-worth its weight in gold

[crpntr133]

rds912, I have a question for you. If I fill a balloon at the bottom of the pool 3 feet deep and fill it with 1 cubic foot of air and tie the balloon closed. And then I let the balloon go and it hits the surface, what will the volume of air be in the balloon when it reaches the surface?

Hope I'm not jumping the gun since we don't know the rest of your questions. But his son isn't at 3 FPW but on the surface. I don't see any reference to being at 3'. The pool seems to be 3' deep. There is one post that states that the father is under the kid holding his breath. Kid still can't be at 3 FPW. If I am not seeing this then my apologies.

 

[Luis H]

Not that I'd bet my kid's life on it, but children and animals tend to exhale quite naturally when ascending. I remember a story that Chuck Shilling used to tell to make that point. They took several dogs from the dog lab at Harvard down to the Submarine Escape Tower in Groton. At 100 feet they put the dogs out the bottom of the roving bell and the dogs surfaced. None embolized. Chuck thought that might have been because they were "Harvard" dogs ... but he was willing to expand his theory to cover mammals in general, including human children ... basically organisms that were not afraid of what was doing on (to the best of my knowledge Chuck did not repeat the experiment with children).

Which brings up my memories of when I was a little kid (four and five). We had an upside down bathtub moored in the bottom of a lake that was filled with air. We'd snorkel down to it and breathe. Bunches of us did this and no one ever though about embolism or had any problem. I guess Chuck was right.

I don’t want to highjack this thread, but I noticed this post.

This is very interesting.
If I am reading this right it seems that untrained dogs (perhaps they may be trained…they are from Harvard, but I am assuming they are not trained and certified in Scuba diving) can perform a CESA from 100 ft without injury. On the other hand, if you read some of the posts around here, you get the impression that CESA (for a certified Scuba diver) is almost like a death wish from any depth.

Perhaps, maybe we can learn a trick or two from some dogs…


This thread just didn’t have enough controversy.

 

[bkfawcett]

Boy! Are they really making kids so fragile nowadays? I can remember walking to school in the snow, hitchiking if I missed the bus, Trick-or-Treating by myself, riding a bike by 5 (without training wheels!), learned to drive a stick shift by 10, earned money at 13, my own motorcycle at 14, fell off fishing boats in Alaskan water (5 years old), climbed trees, built snow forts connected to my secret underground cave, shoot rifles and pistols, fly airplanes, played football, and spent all Summer underwater at the pool! All without a father! I wonder, should I even LET my kid go outside anymore??! It's hard enough trying to find ANYONE willing to just TRY discover scuba. Parents instill so much horror into their children today, that many grow up to never even learn how to swim! Let your kids go outside and play so they don't grow up to be grape-squeezin' liberal panzies that like the smell of their own farts! By the way, Spare-Air is cool...'wish I had one when I was a kid!

 

[Creed]

I guess PADI is pretty stupid, because they do the same thing as rds912.

SASY
It's time to snorkel - a new and exciting way! Supplied Air Snorkeling for Youth (SASY) lets you experience the underwater world the easy way - by snorkeling with scuba equipment instead of a snorkel.
Once you try SASY, and complete the program, send in for your own SASY participant card and wall certificate. The full-color, wallet-size card comes with your picture, name and address. The wall certificate announces you as "SAS Savvy!"

Snorkeling with SASY - it's fun, it's safe, it's easy! You can find information on the SASY program at PADI Dive Centers and Resorts. Stop by your local PADI Dive Center or Resort to ask about how you can try snorkeling with scuba gear.
Jump in the water and try SASY today!

Where did I get that? Well, at PADI's website.
Geez, and they even specify that it is safe for 5 year olds. How dare they play with the lives of kids like that!!!
Here is a description of the equipment used:

The unit is comprised of a small tank that fits into a Velcro holder. Two cinch straps hold the tank firmly in place. The child-sized BC is a jacket with adjustable parachute-style straps, a thin cummerbund and an adjustable strap between the legs that keep the unit from floating loosely.

rds912,
I have a couple of pairs of double 14s that I plan on strapping to life jackets to let my kids bomb around the surface of the pool with an old Conshelf. You might try something like that to let them get a sense of freedom while snorkeling.

 

[Walter]

I guess PADI is pretty stupid, because they do the same thing as rds912.

I let him try it without the vest and he was a natural. He can swim for several minutes on a full spare air.

Not exactly the same thing, but I still agree even if I disagree with your reasons.

 

[Creed]

Not exactly the same thing, but I still agree even if I disagree with your reasons.

He didn't say he was letting his kid freeswim. The kid was swimming on the surface with his dad holding his breath beneath him. The kid was not in any real danger. Some members of this board need to get a grip. They seem scared of everything.

And, for the record, I have a 5 year old. It takes a crowbar to pry that kid out of the pool. His favorite thing to do is to dive down to the 10ft bottom of the local pool and scrounge for dropped items(breath holding, not SCUBA, for those probably freaking out right now), which even his older brothers aren't up to yet.

 

[rds912]

as for the others, no the several minutes of time we not all under water. it was the total time he would get playing with the spair air. and yes several times he did go under water for a few seconds, while i held my breath and controlled how he came up from the whopping 2-3 feet. For those so concerned I did call dan, at 3 feet you are at 1.09 ata even if you inhaled and surfaced there is enough elasticity in your avioli (thats the little air sacs for you lay people) in you lungs to absorb that expansion. at 15ft there could be a potential for danger but at 2 ft it like inhaling a regular breath then sucking in as much air as you can, that would be the max difference in the simplest terms. So to put an end to this argument, is this safe for the lay person maybe not, however I will say this without giving too much information. My wife and I are both medical professionals, I have several hundred dives, my friend is PADI course director I have consulted with DAN and talked with another friend just 10 minutes ago who was a pulmonologist and is now a cardio/thoracic surgeon. So based on my knowledge and experience and the knowledge of others I can draw on, I am confident about my ability to safely supervise my son while using a spare air as not to "explode" his lungs

Thank You

Again I am sure some of you will split hais on these issues, but the fact is this is being done in a safe manner, and if you were not here to whitness it you should not judge.

 

[Croomrider]

Thanks rds912 for your last post. I am not worried now as you have finally made some remarks that make me believe you DO understand the issue where that was not obvious before. There is another thread about an (instructor) being brought up on charges after a college student in her charge died from an air embolism in a pool. So it can happen. Even under some form of supervision. Please be careful!

 

[F106A]

This is why people tend to shun the know it all's.
LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE

Thanks for the post, RDS812.
Sounds like you're having fun.
I could relate similar experiences but am afraid of being chastised by ... well, never mind. (F.'e.!)

 

[24940]

Again I am sure some of you will split hais on these issues, but the fact is this is being done in a safe manner, and if you were not here to whitness it you should not judge.

Some posts aren't necessarily made for the benefit of the OP. This posts is for anyone who might read this thread and come away thinking it's a cool idea to have their child breathing compressed gas at depth.

Despite how safe you feel this practice is, it's a potential recipe for disaster for the uninformed. Just for the record, I think it's a very bad idea.