Surface flotation for DIR harness idea

[SparkySFD]

Okay I had an idea today. Rip it apart and tell me if wont work.

Here's my situation. I'm a Fireman and a member of the Water Rescue Team. The problem with most BC's is they tend to float you face down on the surface. Most training agencies advocate jacket style BC's. Now before you DIR types start ripping into me, Ive heard it before, and I dont buy it.

In my situation I dont have just myself to worry about. Swimming by yourself is one thing. But try swimming on the surface carrying a (hopefully) live body. Unfortunatly most of the time its a body recovery. Lucky for me I am inland and sea state is usually not a problem. But there are plenty of guys out there like me that do have the added worry.

While a DIR BP&wing setup is super underwater they suck for me on the surface (which is where most public safety divers drown). The BP&wing has added benefits for us. We firmen are legendary for our ability to break stuff. Backplates are pretty tough and if one component gets broken we can replace them without having to buy an entirely new BC. Makes it easier on the Chief and the taxpayer.

Here's my idea: Could a guy make a flotation device for the front of a diver wearing a DIR rig? What I invision is a bladder secured to the belt and possibly running up the shoulder straps to the d-rings. Would be bolt-snapped on so its easy to remove. Would have to utilize sometype of bungie (I know its a sin) to keep it all in and tight while not being used. A hose for a power inflator and would have to have a dump valve.

This would only be used for surface flotation. This is why I think the bungie thing is not a huge sin. It would be fairly tight to the body and I think not so bulky if done right.

What I dont know is how much buoyancy you would need. You would of course use the wing for most of the lift. But how much do you need to counteract and ensure a face up position. Cant be to big because you still have to be able to swim and perform work on the surface.

This wouldnt be for everyone. But I think it could solve a problem for some people. Tell me what you guys think.

Thanks

 

[RichLockyer]

Pick up a snorkelling vest.
You really don't need much lift at all.

The BP/W doesn't float ME face down, unless I fill the wing fully. Completely inflated, like you might inflate a jacket BC (because you were taught that way), ya... it's a life raft with you on the bottom UNLESS you are swimming on your back.
If the wing NEEDS to be fully inflated to ensure surface flotation, then, especially with a nearly empty tank, you are overweighted.

THAT SAID...

As a PSD, your situation is a bit unique. You will intentionally slightly overweight to ensure that there is no problem staying down in any conditions, and of cource, you are involved in ferrying another person who could be in any of several states of awareness, but normally unable to assist you in any way.

First thing I would do, both for your safety and the safety of the victim, is establish independent flotation for them. This takes the burden of keeping them afloat off of you, reducing your personal lift requirements, and also helps ensure their survival if you end up letting go (thinking swift water situation). A hypothermic floating victim is in better shape than a hypothermic swimming victim.

Anyways... the snorkelling vest might do the trick without being a major kludge. It is pretty small, sits flat (negates the need for bungees), and is orally inflated (no need for another hose).

 

[mddolson]

I agree with RichLockyer :"The BP/W doesn't float ME face down, unless I fill the wing fully."

I use a 50 lb wing with a single (80) aluminum tank, and 80 lb wing with twin (98s))steel tanks. Some will criticise these as over kill.

I am a big guy, 6 ft 250 lb.
While smaller wings are adequate for general diving needs, as an Instructor there are times when I need to be able to physically take control of a panicky student. On the surface I may need to be quite bouyant and verticle . The larger wings, partially filled do this nicely.

regards

Mike D

 

[BOATS313]

I agree with the getting the victim his own floatation, but understand the difculty of doing that. You could try what we call a "May West". It is a inflatable life jacket simmilar to a snorkling vest. They come on a waist belt in a small pouch. When needed you just pull it out of the pouch and over your head. They are self inflating with a co2 cylinder or can be oraly inflated.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/catalog/SingleProduct.asp?ProductID=226

This is simmilar without the pouch. It may even be a better option. It is made for diving and has been used for years.
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/catalog/SingleProduct.asp?ProductID=229&ColorID=5

Something like this may work too, just make sure it doesn't self inflate.
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/catalog/SingleProduct.asp?ProductID=222

I'm not sure of how you could rig these to not interfere with your BCD or vice versa but there should be a way.

 

[RichLockyer]

mddolson once bubbled...
take control of a panicky student. On the surface I may need to be quite bouyant and verticle . The larger wings, partially filled do this nicely.

Excellent point... not something I considered. What makes the larger wings difficult to trim and handle under water (lot's of room for the bubble to move around) would be a big help for surface flotation.

With no bungees... since they would tend to force the bubble back down, though I don't think the bungees could really fight the hydrostatic compression.

 

[buff]

I have a Dive Rite Rec wing, Fred T. backplate with STA.

At the surface, with my Rec wing fully inflated, my chin is about a foot out of the water!! and I am perfectly vertical-NO forward push.

Underwater I'm horizontal.

 

[RichLockyer]

I've got a RecWing over on Ebay right now... auction closes Sunday (tomorrow) around 2pm.

 

[Waterborne]

Sparky, where on your rig, do you put your weight? Also how much weight do you use/need? I have found that for rescue applications, my SS plate and SS STA work great with my Pioneer 27 even on smaller tanks. When I used an AL plate with a lightweight STA, I found that I would tend to be pushed forward while on the surface. Now with a six pound SS plate and a heavier STA, the weight is on my back and counteracts the forward pushing effect. Even on my lowest profile setup which consists of a my SS plate setup and a 30 or 40 cft cylinder, I do not get the forward push from a fully inflated wing. Most of the time, I do not need to fully inflate my wing even with full tanks I did the testing on it with a fully inflated wing in the event that I may need it.

 

[mddolson]

Both of my wings are Dive-rite wings.
I have a Rec-wing and 80 lb Double Wing

I didn't choose the double wing by need, it was the size I wanted, just got it at a good price

Mike D

 

[Cave Diver]

I agree with Rich.