Taking GPS coordinates of a site... captain's permission?

[skankpile]

So what do these dive boats with secret coordinates to wrecks they only know about do when they leave port hundreds of times a year to shake the competition from following them? Must be tough to lose a tail at 6 knots and 20 miles of visibility to the horizon.

When you are on numbers you are likely very remote and the laws have changed, and if somebody appears on radar you know what is happening so you pick up, speed off, or shoot at them..yes. I used to go fishing with a guy who had custom covers on all his equipment so clients could not know where we were and he handcuffed his numbers in a briefcase to his wrist when he moved from the boat.. no joke. If you pull out gps 100+ miles off shore you loose your equipment and you are in a fight. His numbers were that good and during a tournament if you were on his numbers it made a difference ... that's really it. Same situation if you are treasure hunting etc. You just don't mess with this or word gets out and you are blacklisted.

 

[NAM001]

I was once on a boat in which i logged the lat lon of the dive. Before i got the info recorded a crewmember said they had detected a gps on board and who had it. They felt that the dive sites were known to them and the crew. I obliged them but wondered what they detected the gps with. i assumed at the time it was done the same way the cops know you have a radar det. The IF freq. but idid not ask. It just surprized me that there are some people that are that touchy with thier locations. I would understand if it were fishing locations but a barge location???????? Come on.

 

[Tug]

Great, so pick a number that you're comfortable with and let's insert it in the question. Would you like to use 10 miles, 5, 2, you pick it.

If these coordinates are so valuable and "proprietary" there must be an immense amount of on going competition to follow them to these sites and reap the tremendous value of the locations.

If anybody builds an entire business around a 'secret' location that is fully visible from miles around and they visit it repeatedly, LOL, obviously them there are some smart cookies. Then their scheme to protect it's secret location is to try to stop someone from recording the location on a piece of technology that they could put in their pocket and push a button to record it, go to the head and privately record it or any other manner... that's a smart business plan right there.

The closest thing I would associate this with would be a gold claim. That would be a great method of protecting a gold mine. Might be smarter to file a claim and file the paperwork on these dives sites... oh, yeah, duh! You can't do that. So the business plan is to throw a GPS over board.

Most of the boats by me have a mutual respect for each other and they each each satisy a different market. If you want to hit wrecks, you go out with the wreck boat. If scallops are your thing, go with the boat with the scallop numbers. This also isn't the Carribean where there are 10 dive charters leaving out of the same marina. Most of the boats by me leave from different cities anyway.

As Manni-Yunk stated, a good number of the boats have considerable time and money spent into finding the wrecks and most of the divers understand and respect this. This is also the reason that for some of the sites, it's an invite only list. If you want to bring your GPS on the boats, and whip it out when they tie in, be my guest. You'd provide for some entertainment and while I doubt that you'd have your GPS thrown overboard but I am willing to bet that they would ask you to wipe that coordnate. I also doubt that you'd be allowed back on the boat or any of the others in the area.

 

[vladimir]

I don't have many of these here modern doohickeys, but am curious--- If GPS is on one's smart phone would it not be possible to record a location without anyone seeing or knowing you did it? It might be hard if you must keep the phone in your dry bag away from where you may be sitting geared up at the site. Not suggesting anyone do this, just curious.

Sure, the GPS Tracker or Google Latitude apps (and many similar, I would think) will relay your coordinates continually, so that somebody monitoring at home knows where you are at all times. You'd have to be within cellphone range. The wreck is located wherever that three-hour period when your location didn't change was.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think cell phone GPS isn't really "GPS", and I've never had a phone's 'gps' work worth a damn away from cell towers.

If the Capt asks you not to, its pretty simple to show him some respect. If you have to sneak around to do it, it kind of shows how much you respect other people and is telling of your personal ethics.

 

[Reck Diver]

LOL.

Where I am is now your proprietary information. That's funny!

Look out, I've got the GPS coordinates... I'm going to come back and put you out of business now...

I'm guessing spending time providing great customer service and creating repeat customers is going to put a lot more money in your pocket than worrying about preventing divers from knowing where they are at on the planet.

Confucious say "“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.”

Boat captains worried about somebody taking a GPS coordinate need to realize there is no cat in the room.

I'll be brief..... You are mistaken.

 

[Gombessa]

I don't have many of these here modern doohickeys, but am curious--- If GPS is on one's smart phone would it not be possible to record a location without anyone seeing or knowing you did it? It might be hard if you must keep the phone in your dry bag away from where you may be sitting geared up at the site. Not suggesting anyone do this, just curious.

Easily. You could track it with a GPS app. You could simply take a picture topside with the camera app (if you have location services enabled, the GPS coordinates will automatically be encoded with the image metadata). You could load up the maps app, hit "current location" and drop a pin. None of these requires a cell signal.

But even more surreptitiously, you can get a tiny standalone GPS receiver/logger module (they sell them for hikers, coordinating GPS and photo timestamps, etc.) and just leave it on in your backpack or drybag, or pants pocket. When you get home, download the stored coordinates to your computer.

Short of a jammer or hiring the TSA to give every passenger the "private screening pat-down," I have no idea how a boat could reasonably detect or stop someone from doing any of the above.

---------- Post added January 7th, 2013 at 09:42 PM ----------

I think cell phone GPS isn't really "GPS", and I've never had a phone's 'gps' work worth a damn away from cell towers.

If the Capt asks you not to, its pretty simple to show him some respect. If you have to sneak around to do it, it kind of shows how much you respect other people and is telling of your personal ethics.

You're talking about AGPS (assisted GPS). Depending on the precision requested by the app, it can triangulate via wifi, cell tower, or receive true GPS signals. On an iphone, as long as your cellular antenna is powered up (no airplane mode), you'll get true GPS signal without any need for a cell signal (hence, why only the cellular-data versions of the ipad have true location services capabilities).

 

[Reck Diver]

Great, so pick a number that you're comfortable with and let's insert it in the question. Would you like to use 10 miles, 5, 2, you pick it.

If these coordinates are so valuable and "proprietary" there must be an immense amount of on going competition to follow them to these sites and reap the tremendous value of the locations.

If anybody builds an entire business around a 'secret' location that is fully visible from miles around and they visit it repeatedly, LOL, obviously them there are some smart cookies. Then their scheme to protect it's secret location is to try to stop someone from recording the location on a piece of technology that they could put in their pocket and push a button to record it, go to the head and privately record it or any other manner... that's a smart business plan right there.

The closest thing I would associate this with would be a gold claim. That would be a great method of protecting a gold mine -- have no legal rights to it, and take people to visit it on a daily basis. Might be smarter to file a claim and file the paperwork on these dives sites... oh, yeah, duh! You can't do that. So the business plan is to throw a GPS over board.

Ask our friend on this board AUE-Mike, who has authored books with the locations of countless shipwrecks to provide you with the numbers to the City of Everette, a wreck he identified. I have a feeling it is not going to happen.

 

[NAM001]

This is a battle that the boats can not win. The only way to keep a secret is to tell no one. I have seen boats that cover thier gps units readouts. Unfortunately technology is trumping that. If someone wants the location it can be got. All the boat owners can do is try to make it difficult to get the info while onboard. Any one with a radar can get the info. It is just not easy for you to get it. In todays age it is hard to believe that boat owners think the info can not be otained. They are behind the curve when it comes to that. Certainly if a boat captain asked that logging not be done i would most probably not argue with them. I want to e able to continue with that charter and go to the better dive spots. Deep down i have a problem with others telling me what i can do and what i cant do in regards to things that are not thiers to rule. However i have no problem if a boat operator decides to change dive sites in the middle of the trip if he thinks somethig is being compromised. Eventually, if not already no one will have an effective method of maintaining location security. I like to have the gps data. Just to put a pin on a map with, but that does not need real acurate data for that purpose. I have empathy for the owners but at the same time They need to accept the 21st century technology. It only takes one leak and the info is out. Out of hundreds of trips ect,, how realistic is it that the security of a location is such that,,, an operator would toss a device overboard thinking it will insure its continued secracy.

 

[WeldonDowd]

I was once on a boat in which i logged the lat lon of the dive. Before i got the info recorded a crewmember said they had detected a gps on board and who had it. They felt that the dive sites were known to them and the crew. I obliged them but wondered what they detected the gps with. i assumed at the time it was done the same way the cops know you have a radar det. The IF freq. but idid not ask. It just surprized me that there are some people that are that touchy with thier locations. I would understand if it were fishing locations but a barge location???????? Come on.

Can anyone elaborate on this? It makes me curious. I can't find any device that detects a GPS unit. And if they did it would detect a lot of devices, like everyone's phone and smart pad on board.