Tech/Cave Gear

[victorzamora]

With all due respect, those are all pretty minor variations on a central theme. Excluding dedicated wreck divers... BM doubles in cave country is pretty darned standardized. I'm diving on average trice a week and see a lot of divers. Non-ISO manifolds is pretty rare and does not really change much. Indy-doubles is also rare. I saw one last month, but he even had mismatched tanks and two RH valves, so this appeared more of a "make do" than a planned out config. Whether you loop your long hose on your tank, can light, or tuck in belt is really pretty Minor.

Like I said I have no problem with folks who put the effort in and have their crap together. If you want to SM at the cavern level, that's fine! Just don't show up for intro class as your first dive in half-arse sidemount and hog up the steps for 30m while a line of other divers is overheating, and waiting to get in the water.

I get it, and it IS fairly minor. It also doesn't really take much to get a diver competent, comfortable, and trimmed-out in SM once you pick a good instructor. I know that I went from zero SM to competent in just a couple dives. I can't imagine BM doubles being any quicker (not saying slower, just couldn't have been quicker) of a transition. When I say "competent" I mean mostly neat, mostly trim, and capable of mostly clean valve drills....far from an expert, but I wasn't going to strangle myself with my hoses!

I know it's been said before, but I think it's pretty crucial for you to show up at least mostly competent in your gear config (BM or SM doubles) when you start a tech/cave class. I didn't, and I struggled much more than I should have for it....and I apologize to my cavern/intro instructor for it almost every time I see him! He put in a lot of extra hours to compensate for that.

 

[kensuf]

I didn't think so, but someone told me he dives independent and non-isolotable manifolded doubles. I apologize for being incorrect, above, and have removed the reference.

The non-isolotable manifold is true. Straight crossbar.

 

[kensuf]

I get it, and it IS fairly minor. It also doesn't really take much to get a diver competent, comfortable, and trimmed-out in SM once you pick a good instructor. I know that I went from zero SM to competent in just a couple dives. I can't imagine BM doubles being any quicker (not saying slower, just couldn't have been quicker) of a transition. When I say "competent" I mean mostly neat, mostly trim, and capable of mostly clean valve drills....far from an expert, but I wasn't going to strangle myself with my hoses!

I know it's been said before, but I think it's pretty crucial for you to show up at least mostly competent in your gear config (BM or SM doubles) when you start a tech/cave class. I didn't, and I struggled much more than I should have for it....and I apologize to my cavern/intro instructor for it almost every time I see him! He put in a lot of extra hours to compensate for that.

Just a couple of dives could easily translate into two days. If a person only booked two days for a basic cave class, guess what just happened?

Someone trying to show up for cave/tech training may think they have their SM stuff together, even when they don't, because they have a C-card after they took a SM class from some jack hole that himself doesn't know what they're doing. "But I just took sidemount from that guy in the video a few pages back, how could I possibly be bad at sidemount?"

 

[Johanan]

My approach, which I found very useful, was to choose an istructor who trained me all the way from the first Sidemount Course to Full Cave and accompanied me during this period of 4 years. Thus the cave training was an ongoing sidemount training, too - but definitely not a waste of time. BTW, a cave class of two days is a bit surprising. My cave classes lasted one week / 12 dives each. Two days is an extremely fast pace anyway.

 

[Caveeagle]

... BTW, a cave class of two days is a bit surprising. My cave classes lasted one week / 12 dives each. Two days is an extremely fast pace anyway.

He did say "Basic Cave". (I assume intro)..

...And knowing how much time many instructors commit to cavern, I don't think two days is unreasonable.

 

[Dan_P]

I appreciate that the SM config I use (Z system) works well with single tank for when I'm doing light diving, and has consistant protocols with those employed by my students.
Further, I think it handy that I can run around and help out students with their gear while I'm wearing all of mine, and then grab a bottle on the go as we ready to enter.

And that it's the same system I use if I want to use two tanks, or more, with it always being consistant. And that I can whack a canister and a loop on it to scale to CCR.

I also think it's handy that it works for everything, including sidemount/no-mount and allows protocols that I think make a lot of sense.

It's more expensive than most sidemount solutions. Personally, I think it's an agreeable expense.

 

[kensuf]

He did say "Basic Cave". (I assume intro)..

...And knowing how much time many instructors commit to cavern, I don't think two days is unreasonable.

Yup. Basic Cave (NSS-CDS) is the same class as Intro (TDI, IANTD, etc).

Cavern - minimum 2 days (several of us use 3 days, the class I'm wrapping up today started on Friday morning)
Basic / Intro - minimum 2 days
Apprentice - minimum 2 days
Cave Diver (aka Full Cave) - minimum 2 days
Advanced / Stage - minimum 2 days

Frequently people chunk the courses in blocks, Cavern + Basic, Apprentice + Cave. Sometimes they do it one step at a time.

Some agencies (GUE and NAUI) chunk them into "Cave 1" (Cavern -> Apprentice) and "Cave 2" (Full + Stage) which can be done in 5 or 6 days.

Some people try to go "Zero to Hero" (Cavern -> Full) in a one week shot. That doesn't always end well.

The idea of spending 4 years to be mentored from an openwater diver to cave diver is a bit extreme, many people cycle out of the sport within 5 years anyway, but the idea of spending time in-between courses to work on cave awareness / skills / etc has a ton of merit, no matter what sequence of courses a person decides to do. I personally won't teach a zero to hero course, I think there's a ton of merit in spending some time developing cave awareness.

 

[victorzamora]

Just a couple of dives could easily translate into two days. If a person only booked two days for a basic cave class, guess what just happened?

I agree with you. Especially with a mediocre SM instructor, there's ZERO hope of getting cleaned up. However, I believe that you need to be competent with your doubles setup before you start tech training, regardless of whether or not they're mounted behind you or beside you.

I've said it before and I'll say it again with no shame: I had a terrible sidemount foundation (and general skills) going into Cavern/Intro despite seeking what I thought had been good training. I was completely unaware of what a good diver looked like. I was comfortable in the water and didn't panic, but my Cavern/Intro course ran much longer than it would have if I'd shown up flat, neutral, and with a passable knowledge of my SM setup. If my short time in doubles has taught me anything, though, it's that getting flat and neutral and competent in doubles isn't as simple as changing the wing out on your BPW....which takes me back to:
You need to be comfortable with two primary tanks before you start tech training, regardless of where you mount them.