The LDS of the future

[redacted]

If you want to take a private ski lesson - that starts at $80/hr. And the instructor in a lot of cases won't even be certified. If you want a private lesson from someone with real credentials you could pay up to $400/hr. More if you're interested in competitive skiing. Tennis and golf run very similar rates. Why would you expect scuba diving to be so much cheaper? It's not like you place your life (or more importantly, the lives of your loved ones) in the hands of the tennis coach or the golf pro...

The big difference here is that ski, golf, and tennis instruction is designed for folks who want to improve their skils and decided that was the correct route for them. There is not certification involved and there are other means of improvement available if one would rather not buy instruction. In fact, it is possible to become a ski, golf, or tennis professional and never buy a lesson.

Diving costs money.

Skimping on instruction is akin to diving the wrong gas just because it's too expensive. Cheap divers != safe divers in my experience. If $50/hr is too much to pay for quality instruction and you buy based on price, you're making an economic decision - not one based on quality. If the $4 air fill is "good enough" when the $40 21/25 is more appropriate you're not taking a "calculated risk" you're "cheap" and "unsafe" in my book.

Paying $300 to $400 for an OW certification is not skimping on instruction any more than paying $200 for a dive computer is skimping on safety. It is entirely possible that more expensive options are simply padded with more bells and whistles. And there are no guarantees that paying $50/hr for instruction will get you any more quality than paying $10/hr.

If you really want to see what instruction is worth, separate scuba training from certification.

 

[molina67]

Hold on, starting to feel sick... I don't want to be rude to you Bob... What your doing promotes part-time instruction and almost certainly requires an instructor to have a second job... You're worth what you work for in most cases (monetary terms). That ain't saying much about you. Now I know different, what I see is your a nice guy. In terms of your effect on the value of what we do in the diving community, well you've made me sick to my stomach to say the least. You people, yes I said it "you people" are doing nothing except contributing to the problem that full time instructors have. Which is being underpaid as a whole... Your hobby shop tinkering, decimates the diving proffesion. What you do part time for fun, I do full time for a living. This is just as bad as the LDS price wars on the OW class. All the post I've read that you haven written are nothing more then hypocrisy at it's finest. I think your a nice guy Bob so don't get me wrong, I just do not agree with your business practice at all. I think you should go back and read some of your own posts over say the last few months. Maybe I'm wrong and someone hacked your account.. IDK...

WOW that was pretty rude for someone who wasn't trying to be rude. Talk about hypocrisy, you say don't get me wrong I think you're a nice guy but you make me sick....NICE!

 

[Brendon]

Bob, im not going to edit my post, if you can't tell it frustrated me... To clarify and stick with the topic I will say this. "when dive shops are failing or barely treading water it's because the don't put any value on the training" example: training 400.00, gear 2000.00 where is the value- in the tools... What happens to the tools- they get left in the garage collecting dust... Put the value in the training and the tools will get used- it becomes a way of life not soon separated from the diver. Focus on providing a new way to experience life and gear sales will follow- fact.

 

[redacted]

Hold on, starting to feel sick... I don't want to be rude to you Bob... What your doing promotes part-time instruction and almost certainly requires an instructor to have a second job... You're worth what you work for in most cases (monetary terms). That ain't saying much about you. Now I know different, what I see is your a nice guy. In terms of your effect on the value of what we do in the diving community, well you've made me sick to my stomach to say the least. You people, yes I said it "you people" are doing nothing except contributing to the problem that full time instructors have. Which is being underpaid as a whole... Your hobby shop tinkering, decimates the diving proffesion. What you do part time for fun, I do full time for a living. This is just as bad as the LDS price wars on the OW class. All the post I've read that you haven written are nothing more then hypocrisy at it's finest. I think your a nice guy Bob so don't get me wrong, I just do not agree with your business practice at all. I think you should go back and read some of your own posts over say the last few months. Maybe I'm wrong and someone hacked your account.. IDK...

The lawn service that used to mow my grass said the same thing about the HS student up the street who does it now. Besides some agency anointment, what is it that you have to offer that you think warrants such high costs?

 

[mathauck0814]

there are no guarantees that paying $50/hr for instruction will get you any more quality than paying $10/hr.

I think I disagree. The full time instructor that does nothing but teach all year long and gets a premium for his time won't be in business for very long if he's not worth the money. I guess I don't draw the distinction between instruction and certification because of the way that I choose to spend money on training. I fly to wherever my instructor happens to be, spend the week working on things that I've expressed an interest in and if by the end of the week I've met his standards for performance, I get "certified". If not, we'll pick up where we left off in a few months when I come back for another week.

The cheap courses (no offense to Bob, because I don't think this actually applies to him) are generally a way that LDS lure people in to sell them equipment. Their goal has nothing to do with quality instruction - their goal is to sell equipment and to get the course over as quickly as possible so they can schedule another one and lure in the next group.

The only other way I can see courses being cheap is through instructors not charging what their time is worth. I don't have an opinion on that.

 

[molina67]

Paying $300 to $400 for an OW certification is not skimping on instruction any more than paying $200 for a dive computer is skimping on safety. It is entirely possible that more expensive options are simply padded with more bells and whistles. And there are no guarantees that paying $50/hr for instruction will get you any more quality than paying $10/hr.

If you really want to see what instruction is worth, separate scuba training from certification.

Very well said... to be PADI certified you have to meet certain requirements and if an instructor teaches these to me and ensures I do them correctly for say $10 an hour why do I need to pay $50 an hour for the same thing? Because one had a pool installed and the other instructor uses some else pool.

Now as for servicing my equipment of course I will use my LDS, I'm no fool, and I won't fill my tanks in someones garage who does not get inspected that would be foolish, but so will be paying $50 and hour for someone to teach me the requirements to be certified if I can get the same thing for $10.

 

[Brendon]

WOW that was pretty rude for someone who wasn't trying to be rude. Talk about hypocrisy, you say don't get me wrong I think you're a nice guy but you make me sick....NICE!

When in Rome... Atleast I can acknowledge that... It's just like saying I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at what you did.

 

[molina67]

The only other way I can see courses being cheap is through instructors not charging what their time is worth. I don't have an opinion on that.

So what determines an instructors worth in teach the required PADI instructions ?

 

[molina67]

Bob, im not going to edit my post, if you can't tell it frustrated me... To clarify and stick with the topic I will say this. "when dive shops are failing or barely treading water it's because the don't put any value on the training" example: training 400.00, gear 2000.00 where is the value- in the tools... What happens to the tools- they get left in the garage collecting dust... Put the value in the training and the tools will get used- it becomes a way of life not soon separated from the diver. Focus on providing a new way to experience life and gear sales will follow- fact.

If your were referring to me with the $400 for instructions and $2000 for gear, If you have read any other post my instructor is just that instructor, he does not sell gear, I bought my gear on my own.

 

[Brendon]

The lawn service that used to mow my grass said the same thing about the HS student up the street who does it now. Besides some agency anointment, what is it that you have to offer that you think warrants such high costs?

Well I guess you would have to sit next to one of my students on the boat... I love it when they run with the ball and school some salty dog who thinks he know everything... What I have to offer? Hmm, nothing to the guy that ditched his pro-landscaper for a HS student... What happens if he is injured on the job? Does he have a business license? Do you pay taxes for his service, how about SS? What's the lesson there? How to get around doing it the right way...