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Skull

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Well seems the chrome is coming off the bumper ...first Hansen then MIT Physics dept head ..and a dozen others then this one ... atleast a voice of reason and humility


U.N. Scientist Rejects Nobel Prize Share, Denounces Climate Alarmism | NewsBusters.org

Has the global warming alarmism movement hit its apex? Maybe so.

In recent weeks, we've seen a resurgence of hard scientists who have come out strongly against the warm-mongers, the latest of which is Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change member John R. Christy. In an op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal, Christy tells the world that not only does he believe it's unproven that humans cause global warming, he's refusing his "share" of the Nobel Peace Prize that he was awarded because it was based on a misunderstanding of science.

An excerpt from this must-read op-ed:

I've had a lot of fun recently with my tiny (and unofficial) slice of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). But, though I was one of thousands of IPCC participants, I don't think I will add "0.0001 Nobel Laureate" to my resume.

The other half of the prize was awarded to former Vice President Al Gore, whose carbon footprint would stomp my neighborhood flat. But that's another story. Large icebergs in the Weddell Sea, Antarctica. Winter sea ice around the continent set a record maximum last month.

Both halves of the award honor promoting the message that Earth's temperature is rising due to human-based emissions of greenhouse gases. The Nobel committee praises Mr. Gore and the IPCC for alerting us to a potential catastrophe and for spurring us to a carbonless economy.

I'm sure the majority (but not all) of my IPCC colleagues cringe when I say this, but I see neither the developing catastrophe nor the smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for most of the warming we see. Rather, I see a reliance on climate models (useful but never "proof") and the coincidence that changes in carbon dioxide and global temperatures have loose similarity over time.

There are some of us who remain so humbled by the task of measuring and understanding the extraordinarily complex climate system that we are skeptical of our ability to know what it is doing and why. As we build climate data sets from scratch and look into the guts of the climate system, however, we don't find the alarmist theory matching observations. (The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration satellite data we analyze at the University of Alabama in Huntsville does show modest warming -- around 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit per century, if current warming trends of 0.25 degrees per decade continue.)


I've been preaching this same point for 10 years ...thanks God some sanity has been found inthe scientific community my words Skull

It is my turn to cringe when I hear overstated-confidence from those who describe the projected evolution of global weather patterns over the next 100 years, especially when I consider how difficult it is to accurately predict that system's behavior over the next five days. (hilighting by Skull).. text is from the article

Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us. As my high-school physics teacher admonished us in those we-shall-conquer-the-world-with-a-slide-rule days, "Begin all of your scientific pronouncements with 'At our present level of ignorance, we think we know . . .'"

I haven't seen that type of climate humility lately. Rather I see jump-to-conclusions advocates and, unfortunately, some scientists who see in every weather anomaly the specter of a global-warming apocalypse. Explaining each successive phenomenon as a result of human action gives them comfort and an easy answer.

Others of us scratch our heads and try to understand the real causes behind what we see. We discount the possibility that everything is caused by human actions, because everything we've seen the climate do has happened before. Sea levels rise and fall continually. The Arctic ice cap has shrunk before. One millennium there are hippos swimming in the Thames, and a geological blink later there is an ice bridge linking Asia and North America.

One of the challenges in studying global climate is keeping a global perspective, especially when much of the research focuses on data gathered from spots around the globe. Often observations from one region get more attention than equally valid data from another.
 
Well seems the chrome is coming off the bumper ...first Hansen then MIT Physics dept head ..and a dozen others then this one ... atleast a voice of reason and humility


U.N. Scientist Rejects Nobel Prize Share, Denounces Climate Alarmism | NewsBusters.org

Has the global warming alarmism movement hit its apex? Maybe so.

In recent weeks, we've seen a resurgence of hard scientists who have come out strongly against the warm-mongers, the latest of which is Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change member John R. Christy. In an op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal, Christy tells the world that not only does he believe it's unproven that humans cause global warming, he's refusing his "share" of the Nobel Peace Prize that he was awarded because it was based on a misunderstanding of science.

An excerpt from this must-read op-ed:

I've had a lot of fun recently with my tiny (and unofficial) slice of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). But, though I was one of thousands of IPCC participants, I don't think I will add "0.0001 Nobel Laureate" to my resume.

The other half of the prize was awarded to former Vice President Al Gore, whose carbon footprint would stomp my neighborhood flat. But that's another story. Large icebergs in the Weddell Sea, Antarctica. Winter sea ice around the continent set a record maximum last month.

Both halves of the award honor promoting the message that Earth's temperature is rising due to human-based emissions of greenhouse gases. The Nobel committee praises Mr. Gore and the IPCC for alerting us to a potential catastrophe and for spurring us to a carbonless economy.

I'm sure the majority (but not all) of my IPCC colleagues cringe when I say this, but I see neither the developing catastrophe nor the smoking gun proving that human activity is to blame for most of the warming we see. Rather, I see a reliance on climate models (useful but never "proof") and the coincidence that changes in carbon dioxide and global temperatures have loose similarity over time.

There are some of us who remain so humbled by the task of measuring and understanding the extraordinarily complex climate system that we are skeptical of our ability to know what it is doing and why. As we build climate data sets from scratch and look into the guts of the climate system, however, we don't find the alarmist theory matching observations. (The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration satellite data we analyze at the University of Alabama in Huntsville does show modest warming -- around 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit per century, if current warming trends of 0.25 degrees per decade continue.)


I've been preaching this same point for 10 years ...thanks God some sanity has been found inthe scientific community my words Skull

It is my turn to cringe when I hear overstated-confidence from those who describe the projected evolution of global weather patterns over the next 100 years, especially when I consider how difficult it is to accurately predict that system's behavior over the next five days. (hilighting by Skull).. text is from the article

Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us. As my high-school physics teacher admonished us in those we-shall-conquer-the-world-with-a-slide-rule days, "Begin all of your scientific pronouncements with 'At our present level of ignorance, we think we know . . .'"

I haven't seen that type of climate humility lately. Rather I see jump-to-conclusions advocates and, unfortunately, some scientists who see in every weather anomaly the specter of a global-warming apocalypse. Explaining each successive phenomenon as a result of human action gives them comfort and an easy answer.

Others of us scratch our heads and try to understand the real causes behind what we see. We discount the possibility that everything is caused by human actions, because everything we've seen the climate do has happened before. Sea levels rise and fall continually. The Arctic ice cap has shrunk before. One millennium there are hippos swimming in the Thames, and a geological blink later there is an ice bridge linking Asia and North America.

One of the challenges in studying global climate is keeping a global perspective, especially when much of the research focuses on data gathered from spots around the globe. Often observations from one region get more attention than equally valid data from another.

Be careful the global warming police will get you :rofl3::popcorn:
 
It's hopeless discussing this with true believers, for whom GW (global warming, not George Bush) is a religion, not a subject for rational scrutiny.

By the way, has anyone noticed that, post Katrina, the last two hurricane seasons were duds? Didn't the cover art for Gore's movie feature a hurricane? Has GW taken a hiatus? The Southeast could use some torrential rainfall...where is climate change when you need it?
 
It is getting warmer at the arctic.

It may be a:

1000 year cycle
5000 year cycle
10,000 year cycle

It may be caused by greenhouse gasses.

It is getting warmer at the arctic

Why is the coast guard establishing an arctic base to deal with the cruise ships, cruising where they couldn't go before?

Why is russia claiming territory that used to be under the ice.

A lot of people are into whether it is human caused or not.

For some reason the fox news crowd finds it un-proveable

It is getting warmer at the arctic circle, accept it
 
Dennis it has been getting warmer at the artic for 18,000 yrs. AMOF 5800 yrs ago Lake Erie was under 5000+ feet of ice ...where did all that ice go? And what anthropogenic influence caused all that ice to disappear in matter of decades? ...Can't blame man for that one.

We can't predict the weather 5 days in advance ...yet we are to believe we can predict what the climate will be 100 yrs from now ...that is sweet ...please while you're at it what is the top for Apple stock so I can sell...
 
Let's summarize:

Global warming advocate's position: global warming is a fact; it is beyond question; no rational person would dare question it; anyone who even suggests that there MIGHT be an alternate explanation, or perhaps no warming at all, is an idiot, a Republican, watches Bill O'Reilly, voted for Bush and clubs seals for a hobby; not a single DIME should be spent on any research that might cast doubt on it; any professional who even hints that it might not take place should have their credentials stripped (this has indeed been suggested by the First Amendment conscious Weather Channel)...

Global warming skeptic's position: there may or may not be warming, it may or may not be human caused, it may or may not be bad even if it were occuring, and we should keep an open mind about the issue, and do further research, before mortgaging our lifestyles based upon the computer predictions of a bunch of previously unheard of nerds who can't predict major weather patterns in the South Atlantic one season in advance with any accuracy let alone the atmospheric behavior of the whole planet fifty years from now...

which position is unreasonable? I rest my case
the first position is NOT the one of a rational, scientific mind, it is the one of a zealot who, deep down, fears the truth
 
Let's summarize:

Global warming advocate's position: global warming is a fact; it is beyond question; no rational person would dare question it; anyone who even suggests that there MIGHT be an alternate explanation, or perhaps no warming at all, is an idiot, a Republican, watches Bill O'Reilly, voted for Bush and clubs seals for a hobby; not a single DIME should be spent on any research that might cast doubt on it; any professional who even hints that it might not take place should have their credentials stripped (this has indeed been suggested by the First Amendment conscious Weather Channel)...

Global warming skeptic's position: there may or may not be warming, it may or may not be human caused, it may or may not be bad even if it were occuring, and we should keep an open mind about the issue, and do further research, before mortgaging our lifestyles based upon the computer predictions of a bunch of previously unheard of nerds who can't predict major weather patterns in the South Atlantic one season in advance with any accuracy let alone the atmospheric behavior of the whole planet fifty years from now...

which position is unreasonable? I rest my case
the first position is NOT the one of a rational, scientific mind, it is the one of a zealot who, deep down, fears the truth

THAT is a dead on observation!:coffee:
 
Let's summarize:

Global warming advocate's position: global warming is a fact; it is beyond question; no rational person would dare question it; anyone who even suggests that there MIGHT be an alternate explanation, or perhaps no warming at all, is an idiot, a Republican, watches Bill O'Reilly, voted for Bush and clubs seals for a hobby; not a single DIME should be spent on any research that might cast doubt on it; any professional who even hints that it might not take place should have their credentials stripped (this has indeed been suggested by the First Amendment conscious Weather Channel)...

Global warming skeptic's position: there may or may not be warming, it may or may not be human caused, it may or may not be bad even if it were occuring, and we should keep an open mind about the issue, and do further research, before mortgaging our lifestyles based upon the computer predictions of a bunch of previously unheard of nerds who can't predict major weather patterns in the South Atlantic one season in advance with any accuracy let alone the atmospheric behavior of the whole planet fifty years from now...

which position is unreasonable? I rest my case
the first position is NOT the one of a rational, scientific mind, it is the one of a zealot who, deep down, fears the truth

I totally agree but also say we need to do all we can to reduce pollution of all kinds.
 
I totally agree but also say we need to do all we can to reduce pollution of all kinds.


Agreed, but the GW debate centers on carbon dioxide as a pollutant and whether it is or not, and what levels are dangerous. Who says that it is? If CO2 is NOT contributing to GW to any great degree (and yes, there is still NO consensus on that), then it is not a pollutant and curbing its output does nothing to "better" the environment. Moreover, it is all relative...to many life forms, oxygen is a pollutant. So is iron. We simply aren't smart enough yet to understand what levels of each chemical compound is ideal to preserve our current "Eden". The central dogma of climate changeologists is that our current climate is somehow the very best climate that could ever be in the history of the planet and that it should, a la Miss Haversham, be frozen in time forever. A single degree one or the other would spell doom for all life! There is no evidence of this. True, major climate change has changed the relative balance of species, driving many to extinction and favoring others; life has always and will always prevail.That's the way it works. If it were not for a major climate shift, mammals would never have taken hold and there would not have been dopes like us to argue about climate at all. Without change, without stressors, life cannot and will not progress.

Besides, we cannot freeze the planet in time as if it were in some piece of climatic amber. It never has happened and it never will.

If one looks at the level of water and air pollution as a function of GDP, it is readily apparent that wealthy capitalist nations are significantly cleaner compared to poor nations. Only wealthy nations can afford scrubbers on their coal plants, catalytic converters on their cars, strict effluent analysis on factory water use, and so on. The net effect of trying to rein in crabon dioxide output would be to make economies suffer, thereby decreasing wealth. If we bankrupt ourselves, we will end up on a dirtier planet.

The "urgency" of climate alarmists reminds me of the "urgency" of home realtors or used care salespeople...act NOW, don't think about it, another buyer is right around the corner, yada, yada. People who demand we act immediately, with no further thought or reflection, are usually trying to sell us a big pile of garbage.
 
If CO2 is NOT contributing to GW to any great degree (and yes, there is still NO consensus on that), then it is not a pollutant and curbing its output does nothing to "better" the environment.

....................

The net effect of trying to rein in crabon dioxide output would be to make economies suffer, thereby decreasing wealth. If we bankrupt ourselves, we will end up on a dirtier planet.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the problem. There are always unintended consequences to any action.

Hysteria tends to short circuit clear thinking, and I see a lot of hysteria in the global warming discussion.
 
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