Underweighted Buddy What to do now ?

[jeckyll]

I'm not sure that just grabbing your buddy would have been the best thing to do. Perhaps, as has been pointed out, it would only have lead to 2 divers in trouble instead of one.

I also have a feeling that your buddy got behind on his venting. I've been light and had a hard time holding 20 feet with about 650 / 700 psi at the end of a 40+ minute dive. It lead to me having to let the suit compress to the point where I was shivering, but I was still holding and didn't have real 'issues' until 10 fsw.

Given how far you were into your dive (not that far from the sounds of it) and the fact that you were still at 50 fsw, I would find it hard to believe that your buddy was that light and could have made it down at the beginning. Unless he _swam_ down. In either case, I would say the fault would have been your buddies, not yours.

Just my $0.02

 

[spectrum]

He did have trouble getting down (he admitted this later)

While the trouble getting down initially could have been excessive air trapped in his drysuit or BC he should have seen this coming.

You did mention that he was layering garments. Coud he have added a garment in the vent location that occluded his dump valve? That would bypass venting techique and weighting issues and also cause his difficulty.

Maybe it was the excitement of the dive that distracted him or perhaps he needs to brush up on some dive / buoyancy physics. Asside from dumping trapped air a diver will only get lighter.

Pete

 

[Web Monkey]

My first question is whether I could have done anything to prevent his uncontrolled ascent ? I suppose I could have grabbed hold of him (we were within 6' of each other for all of the dive), but the concern is that I might have not been able to make myself sufficiently negative to prevent myself being dragged to the surface as well.

He could have fixed the problem by letting water into the drysuit (typically by venting the neck seal).

It's pretty cold (depends on the water you're diving in) but would have fixed his buoyancy problem.

Not sure what you could have done. He probably wouldn't have been happy if you did it to him.

Terry

 

[Charlie99]

He could have fixed the problem by letting water into the drysuit (typically by venting the neck seal).

Just to clarify a bit, let's not forget that you could drag around a dozen gallon jugs of water without affecting your buoyancy. Lots of weight, but no buoyancy change.

The water weight itself doesn't do anything. It's only when it soaks into and replaces air in the undergarments that you get any change in buoyancy. Perhaps the real advantage of pulling a neck seal is that it release some trapped air.

Considering that the guy was in a rubber drysuit, it sounds more like he was just a couple of pounds light, but got behind in venting during the ascent. A key goal in accident analysis is to identify the problem in order to avoid repetition.

In a situation like this, I have grabbed the person, exhaled hard and yanked them down until they could vent (wetsuits usually, but similar problem). Often they just need a few seconds to get things under control. If you watch closely, you can see the signs (such as beginning to fin while pointing downward) and remind them to release air and can position yourself to catch them.

 

[Web Monkey]

Just to clarify a bit, let's not forget that you could drag around a dozen gallon jugs of water without affecting your buoyancy. Lots of weight, but no buoyancy change.

That was the point. If you're underwater, head up, and pull the neck seal, the suit will start filling with water and release air.

Areas that are full of water can no longer contain air. Also the water fills the airspaces in the underwear (insulation), which would normally still contain air, even after venting

Terry

 

[Willie]

I bring extra soft weights to share and have given some to my buddies to keep when they needed that extra 2#.

I wear 2 pounds I can do without if I need to give it up. I have on occasion offered it to another diver that needed it. It makes my dive much easier to have it especially at the beginning, but I can manage fine without it, just takes a little more concentration.

... I have grabbed the person, exhaled hard and yanked them down until they could vent (wetsuits usually, but similar problem). Often they just need a few seconds to get things under control. If you watch closely, you can see the signs (such as beginning to fin while pointing downward) and remind them to release air and can position yourself to catch them.

I had a buddy do this for me on about my 3rd dive after certification. I didnt even notice I was on my way up, we had been finning and I guess I was finning down without realizing it and as soon as we stopped I was checking my psi and off I went (slowly not rapidly). He grabbed me and held me for a second. At first I was wondering what the deal was and as I looked at him down below me it hit me. I vented a couple of short times and was fine.

Willie

 

[Jim Kerr]

When I was a new diver I went to Catalina Island and was paired with another new diver as my buddy. Before going there I had been practicing making nice "sloooooow" free ascents by watching the ascent meter on my computer and venting before it got too high.

The dive went fine but on our ascent my buddy started going up "waaaaaay" too fast and I motioned for him to slow it down. When he failed to slow his ascent I grabbed his feet and tried to pull him back down only to get sky rocketed to the surface right along with him. When I talked to him after the dive I learned that he did't have a weighting problem, he just didn't vent, "AT ALL"!

But, I was on the other side of the coin when I first got my drysuit and was establishing my weighting. I did a few uncontrolled ascents until I figured out how to properly weight "and" vent my drysuit. Fortunately a certification course was included with the suit that taught about flairing out, swimming down and doing roll outs in case I did get into a little trouble I would know what to do. I also informed "everyone" that I was diving dry for the first time and with new gear so I may be back up to make some adjustments.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

To answer your questions:

He was wearing a thin rubber (not neoprene) Viking drysuit.
He did have trouble getting down (he admitted this later)
I suspect late venting played a part. He has been diving for over 10 years but mainly vacation diving so he is relatively new to drysuit diving (<15 dives)


To everyone else thanks for your comments. The thing that concerns me is that I was unable to deal with the situation. It wasn't that I made a conscious decision not to grab him, it was that I didn't make any decision at all.

I'll strive to practice more and try to be better prepared should there be a next time.

Bradshi,
This post is very telling to me. Your concerns about your lack of action is why I'm now suggesting you look into rescue training if you've not already. Practicing more is good but what are you going to practice? The action/inaction here was really not the problem to me as I read your words. The lack of decision to act is why I suggest a rescue course. Not only will you learn how to react to different scenarios but you will also benefit by being taught to anticipate and recognize problems before they start. I ask every new buddy I dive with if there is anything different with what they are using, is there a specific skill they'd like to work on, etc. Regular buddies I can look at and say hey, you've got a new wing or bc or that's a new configuration you're diving. Have you checked it out yet? Rescue will also involve self rescue and the skills for it including when to know if you should act. Sometimes the best we can do is keep em in sight and call the medics once we get them to shore and have started whatever first aid needs done. Chasing after a rapidly ascending diver is a tough call. I've done a few and I've let a couple go because it would have meant risking my own neck too far. With ow students I normally dive a little heavy. If with certed divers or myself I keep my weight right where it should be. Grabbing for a diver doing an imitation of a launch of a poseidon missile in my regualr weight depends on depth and if there's a line or something handy. If it's relatively deep (50 ft plus) I would be more likely to go for it. If shallow (30 or less) I'd be more likely to follow at a safe rate and render what assistance may be needed. Everything expands alot faster in the first 30 ft so it goes much faster. Deeper allows more time to respond. Again in short do a rescue course and tell your buddy to get more experience with his dry suit and weighting of it.

 

[Archangel]

To answer your questions:

He was wearing a thin rubber (not neoprene) Viking drysuit.
He did have trouble getting down (he admitted this later)
I suspect late venting played a part. He has been diving for over 10 years but mainly vacation diving so he is relatively new to drysuit diving (<15 dives)


To everyone else thanks for your comments. The thing that concerns me is that I was unable to deal with the situation. It wasn't that I made a conscious decision not to grab him, it was that I didn't make any decision at all.

I'll strive to practice more and try to be better prepared should there be a next time.

Dear B:

If this helps, my buddies and I swim wing to wing, so they are never out of arm's reach, and if you two were that close, HE could have grabbed YOU to control his ascent.

I too admit that when I was first learning how to dive my drysuit, I also had uncontrolled ascents.

Secondly, I am CURRENTLY LEARNING how to grab noobs in my DM training. You really have no training nor responsibility to grab him on the way up.

No two for one sales/deaths in diving

(the rescue credo)

Take care,

 

[Archangel]

P.S.

I carry up to 4 lbs extra when diving with noobs and students