Using LDS for a fitting room

[redacted]

As someone who works in the book industry there are times when I could quite happily shoot customers for doing the same thing. I particularly like it when they ask if I have wi-fi so they can download they books they see in my store from Amazon or ask for a paper and pen to write them down so they can ordered them online when they get home! But they all claim to love walking and browsing in bookstores!

It is a sign of the times that people want to order things online and save money however, it will be a sad day in the not too distant future when retail stores no longer excist the way they do now and 'retail therapy' will be done at home on your computer screen. For the most part it is nearly impossible for LDS or any other physical retailer to be able to compete with an online store, they simply have more and higher costs.

The questions the customer needs to ask is do I like having a store that I can go into and look around, touch, feel the products and talk to someone who knows about them or am I happy just going by the picture on the screen and buying that way. The bottom line is if you do not support your local stores, they will not be there in the future.

... and nobody will ever be able to dive again.

Anybody want to buy a video store? How about a butcher shop (meat market)? Full service gas station. Dinosaur?

 

[Seraphimx]

Well the book industry is shifting to the digital era pretty fast so that comparison is kinda similar but not accurate.
But I do often browse a bookstore and check the description, take pictures, go back home, read internet reviews and buy the book.

How many times have you bought a book and told yourself, THIS BOOK IS SO BADLY WRITTEN I SHOULD GET A REFUND! I happens to me often, that's why I take pictures and look them up. I like Fantasy books and the are Fatnasy written and Wanna-be writers. You pay 20$ for a wanna-be writer book, it'll hurt.

Did I bother an employee for explanations? No
Do I still take pictures and buy another book yes.
Do I look up some of these book in used bookstores, YES!!!
It's like someone looking at wetsuits but not buying, it's legal, it's being smart.You won't buy something without checking if it's an item that is know to break easily or rip.

Don't you find more offending people that sit down and read the damn thing at B&N ? YES it's stealing.
It's like someone putting on a wetsuit and walking out.

It's not a good analogy since your aren't selling goods. You are selling intellectual work, which can be easily sent in a PDF format.
Last quarterly report from amazon showed more books sold by Kindle than "physical books".
This means that small bookshop will stop to existing in the near future, does that make me sad, yeah.
Should it be stopped, not really, should I spend my money on a venture that WILL eventually fail. NO!
Was I sad to scrap my old Honda? Yes, but would I spend more money than necessary? No!

People adapt. Business adapt.
LDS need to adapt or they lose $ and close.
Survival of the fittest - Darwin (Spencer *whichever you like)

 

[gNats]

But barnes and noble creates the sit down and read. They provide a coffee shop, comfy chairs.

 

[Seraphimx]

But barnes and noble creates the sit down and read. They provide a coffee shop, comfy chairs.

Like everything in this world, expensive coffee shop, hell 6$ for half a sandwich from Starschmucks, seriously?

 

[larry mckinnon]

This is a difficult one for me that I came across in the last two years. When I started diving 35 years ago, everything came from the LDS. Some shops were known to have a better price on things, but everyone was within range of each other. The internet shops have changed all that, you buy either from a local dive shop, or off the internet. I've seen to many people that take advantage of a shop owner, then claim they buy on the internet because the shop is to expensive. So they spend an hour at the shop, asking questions, fitting, and taking the shops time as if it's free, only to buy off the internet. But here is the problem, you find a BC that has a list price of $800.00, you decide that is the one you want, you go to buy it from your LDS. He doesn't carry it. Or he has to order it. So you go home, and check it out again and see it on sale at Liesurepro for $600 with free shipping and no tax. You call the LDS, his price is still $800 plus $80 for tax. You know, that is a lot of air fills.
Here is what I do now, I find out the price before going to a shop. If "I" think it's a fair price, I go in and try it on, if it fits I will buy it and not check the price online. If the price quoted is much higher then the internet price, I do not go in, I will order online. Even doing that I feel guilty, I know we have to support our local dive shops, otherwise we will not have them in the future. I'm still lost on this one, so I try to buy locally when possible.

 

[k ellis]

Like everything in this world, expensive coffee shop, hell 6$ for half a sandwich from Starschmucks, seriously?

Isnt that the truth. I went to an airport once and they had a coffee shop. I asked about a 6 inch sandwich they had (And after words I thought it felt stale and hard) but they wanted $9.00 for it. They said it was $9 because it was in the airport. Kind of sheisty to get some one in an airport where they cant leave and fleece them to death!

Thats the problem with the economy now. Everyone whos fortunate to have a job is worried about loosing it so they wont spend no money. Those who do have job security for at least the time being like Mcdonalds and so forth that the billionaire owners baulk at the fact they even have to pay a minimum wage which is a little under $8.00 per hour if I recall (And more and more places are trying to get by with this practice it seems of underpaying people) yet go to Arbys and a decent value meal will cost around $10.00 and heaven forbid you take your family to a fast food joint because 2 adults and 2 kids at an Arbys can be well over $30.00.

This is the whole reason people are looking for better deals and its because everyone including many of the LDS are trying to drain the poor mans bank account. Maybe if the LDS owners could understand its not a matter of people not wanting to pay $1000.00 for a 300 dollar bcd its because MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE $1000.00 to begin with. If people made $100.00 per hour they may be more willing to pay LDS price gouges eer price tags.

 

[Seraphimx]

Isnt that the truth. I went to an airport once and they had a coffee shop. I asked about a 6 inch sandwich they had (And after words I thought it felt stale and hard) but they wanted $9.00 for it. They said it was $9 because it was in the airport. Kind of sheisty to get some one in an airport where they cant leave and fleece them to death!

Thats the problem with the economy now. Everyone whos fortunate to have a job is worried about loosing it so they wont spend no money. Those who do have job security for at least the time being like Mcdonalds and so forth that the billionaire owners baulk at the fact they even have to pay a minimum wage which is a little under $8.00 per hour if I recall (And more and more places are trying to get by with this practice it seems of underpaying people) yet go to Arbys and a decent value meal will cost around $10.00 and heaven forbid you take your family to a fast food joint because 2 adults and 2 kids at an Arbys can be well over $30.00.

This is the whole reason people are looking for better deals and its because everyone including many of the LDS are trying to drain the poor mans bank account. Maybe if the LDS owners could understand its not a matter of people not wanting to pay $1000.00 for a 300 dollar bcd its because MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE $1000.00 to begin with. If people made $100.00 per hour they may be more willing to pay LDS price gouges eer price tags.

I was once at the airport of Bucharest with my girlfriend.
We were so used to the cheap prices in the rural places like 20$ for a 4 person meal. So we ordered at the airport without looking at the price. We order a sandwich + a bottle of water.
So the cashier tells her 50,000 Lei (17$USD), my girlfriend missheard and is like OK, 5,000lei(1,70$) (kinda low but not so far off from the rural prices), the cashier was like "NO, your missing a ZERO".

That's like the bad LDS, they jump on the unsuspecting people, and you'll leave feeling used.
The price is not about making money but also being HONEST.

During my OW class, I went to an LDS to get the basic. FIN, MASK, TUBA.
- So I bought a pair of Tusa Imprex. (awesome fins) 5-6 year ago. The guy told me they were a NEW model, they were the top of the range, they were 250$. So I looked around two shop, stupid like I am I went to 2 of the worst & decided it was a fair price, cause HEY, SCUBA STUFF IS LIFE THREATENING.
-I bought a mask that didn't fit me properly, even if the sales guys "helped" me find one that fit. 150$
-I bought the Tusa Imprex Snorkel, caus it was the best 100$

So before going to my OW checkout dives to get my nice OW diver card, the teacher sends me to another, small LDS.
What do I see:
- Tusa Imprex Fins. End of Life liquidation - 50$ (it's an old model now) (not 4 months later)
- Tusa Imprex Tuba. Good tuba 50$
- Mask range from 50-100$: none or very rare to be over 100$ (ScubaPro, Sherwood, Tusa & Cressi, not dirt cheap brands)

What did I feel, I was 18 years old, I felt USED. Hell, I felt like the biggest loser, I had saved like a MANIAC to buy those 3 pieces just to be fleeced. Not everyone has the money to go diving, and maybe if you made your price more accesible not only the "rich and famous" will be able to afford it. And you'll make more $.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Europe and Asia make more $ to Manufacturers, no? And dive clubs over there are for ANYONE.
It's a perfect example that if you lower prices, you make more money. Make it accessible, you'll win.

 

[fjpatrum]

As someone who works in the book industry there are times when I could quite happily shoot customers for doing the same thing. I particularly like it when they ask if I have wi-fi so they can download they books they see in my store from Amazon or ask for a paper and pen to write them down so they can ordered them online when they get home! But they all claim to love walking and browsing in bookstores!

It is a sign of the times that people want to order things online and save money however, it will be a sad day in the not too distant future when retail stores no longer excist the way they do now and 'retail therapy' will be done at home on your computer screen. For the most part it is nearly impossible for LDS or any other physical retailer to be able to compete with an online store, they simply have more and higher costs.

The questions the customer needs to ask is do I like having a store that I can go into and look around, touch, feel the products and talk to someone who knows about them or am I happy just going by the picture on the screen and buying that way. The bottom line is if you do not support your local stores, they will not be there in the future.

I call BS on the belief that LDSes can't compete with online stores. As has been said, many (or maybe most) of the online stores have a brick and mortar store to go along with their online presence. If a brick and mortar shop can't compete it's because they don't know how or are unwilling to compete, not because it can't be done.

It's the same with just about any retail industry. Yes people have a hard time competing directly on price with the huge inventories available online, but that's not where they should be competing. Retail stores of all types can come close(r) to online pricing and still offer tangible benefits that online stores don't offer. We're not talking about WalMart moving into your neighborhood with all or most of the same benefits at half the price. We're talking about a faceless (arguably) internet store that requires a lot more effort from the customer to do returns, exchanges, etc. Any retailer who doesn't understand that deserves to go out of business.

 

[AlaskaDiver]

I travel to various places and check out the local dive shops. I like seeing what each LDS carries and talking to the owners for what they locally offer. This covers everything from locally written books, charters available, gear and sometimes even service. I like to look around. I look at product & prices. If I am interested in say a new BP& Wing, I'll ask questions and try it on etc. I can see the price and have already determined at that point if I wish to continue to spend my valuable time pursuing the item. I will not generally try on gear unless I know I am at least interested in making the purchase at that time.

I find the "buy at the LDS or they will go out of business" a tiresome mantra. I'm the customer. I'm a diver. I'm in your store because I'm interested in what you are selling. If you have competitively priced product and are fair with me, I will make a purchase.

I've been to a LDS where there are no 'normal' sizes of anything in the shop remaining (but I can get XXXL hoods on sale). I'm genuinely interested in a regular size of their product and am ready to make the purchase that day. To hear the dive shop owner say that they can order the item for me and it will arrive within 2-3 weeks is simply ridiculous. When I say that I can order the item online, they proudly proclaim that they too have an online site. Their online site is simply the owner taking orders via a website portal. I now have to go back to this dive shop to pick up the item instead of it being shipped to my house like normal online purchases. How is this customer service??

Successful LDSs have figured out that they need to have both the product at competitive prices and customer service good or the customer will use other venues. The whiners are the ones who usually go out of business. You can't complain to your customers and expect them to hang around for more purchases. Vindictive behavior by LDS's who feel wronged by customers using other venues and imposing a $25 fee for trying on a wetsuit exhibits poor judgment from every aspect. Look at how much negative press is already received about it. It is not really a motivator for future purchases.

 

[scottsax]

I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars at each of my local dive shops (multiple). I have good relationships with all of them. I have also bought online from established retailers, and through craigslist and forums like SB. I DON'T use the shop as fitting room, because these guys are my friends, and that's a dick move. If I put it on, I'm buying it. From my first BC to the 3mm wetsuit I wore to Bonaire the first time, to the Bare drysuit boots, I don't regret any of those purchases, even though I could've saved hundreds by switching to GEICO, er, by buying online.

When I shop at the LDS, I'm paying for service, expertise (hopefully :mooner, camaraderie, and the privilege of being able to walk into a place that gets my addiction to this sport. When I buy online, it's all about price, period. (With the exception of Tobin at DSS.)

How's that for playing both sides of the field?