Waivers on private boats?

[Nemrod]

is it me or there way too much lawyerism going on where every time i turn around i have to worry about being sued,i take folks out on my boat to do some diving from time to time and i really hate having to worry about being sued for something that is out of my control.I think all the people need to stand up and let the politician lawyers know we have had enough. finish rant

No, it is me too, I hate the ---------.

Heck, if somebody get's bent and crocks maybe just roll them overboard and claim ignorance of the entire event. That is were we are at these days when friends cannot trust friends. Soon they will be turning us in the Homeland Security and we will be rounded up into camps for re-education, code orange.

I would think you would need a lieyer to look at it but a waiver could well increase your liability since it would appear you were running an operation. Just get insurance on your boat, if your a dive professional get that insurance and if your not then you don't need any for that aspect of the adventure.

The deeper your pockets the more I would worry.

N

 

[divinginn]

No, it is me too, I hate the ---------.

Heck, if somebody get's bent and crocks maybe just roll them overboard and claim ignorance of the entire event. That is were we are at these days when friends cannot trust friends. Soon they will be turning us in the Homeland Security and we will be rounded up into camps for re-education, code orange.

I would think you would need a lieyer to look at it but a waiver could well increase your liability since it would appear you were running an operation. Just get insurance on your boat, if your a dive professional get that insurance and if your not then you don't need any for that aspect of the adventure.

The deeper your pockets the more I would worry.

N

the pockets are pretty shallow due to my favorite hobby,but I probably get sume insurance for the boat.

 

[divinginn]

No, it is me too, I hate the ---------.

Heck, if somebody get's bent and crocks maybe just roll them overboard and claim ignorance of the entire event. That is were we are at these days when friends cannot trust friends. Soon they will be turning us in the Homeland Security and we will be rounded up into camps for re-education, code orange.

I would think you would need a lieyer to look at it but a waiver could well increase your liability since it would appear you were running an operation. Just get insurance on your boat, if your a dive professional get that insurance and if your not then you don't need any for that aspect of the adventure.

The deeper your pockets the more I would worry.

N

the pockets are pretty shallow due to my favorite hobby,but I probably need to get a insurance policy on the boat.

 

[divinginn]

guess i need to work on the edit feature.

 

[603doug]

As stated before "Your dive buddy" is not the one who will sue you, it is their family. It is pretty sad that responsibility for ones action are not their, but the identity with the deepest pockets.

 

[ItsBruce]

There's no advice like bad advice ... and I fear I'm seeing a lot of it here. I can't tell who here speaks from actual knowledge and training and who here is just speculating or venting.

I am a lawyer. (Complain if you want to, but lawyers are a necessity in a free society, if for no other reason than to ensure that freedom.) I can tell you all this about waivers: Their effectiveness varies from state to state and with what they say or don't say. I am unaware of a single instance in which having a waiver has increased one's exposure, but of many in which it has decreased it.

That being said, and recognizing that where I live, a properly worded waiver can limit liability, I do not ask people who go out on my boat to sign one. That means people who crew on my boat in races or who dive from it. I have both boat insurance and homeowners insurance. Again, depending on the jurisdiction (state) and precise policy form, either or both may cover liability for a dive accident, especially if the dive is not a "business pursuit" (the definition of which may also vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction).

 

[Nemrod]

Lawyers are not needed in a free society, they just think they are needed as a justification. They, as a profession, have acted largely out of greed at the expense of personal freedom which is why this thread was begun. To much of a bad thing, lawyers, is a really bad and dark thing and an anchor around the neck of free choice and free will.

Venting or not, the fact this question comes up shows how far we have sunk as a society. Your just one lawyer, they never seem to agree so I am sure another will pop up and mention a waiver presented as a release from harm by a professional DM operating a private vessal might act to increase a liability becuase it might be twisted to indicate he was acting and knew he was acting in a professional sense. Who knows, just would depend upon what perversion of common sense prevailed that day.

N

 

[603doug]

One problem in my state for example is hunting or riding 4 wheelers etc. on someone's property and tripping on a strand of barb wire set in a tree 75 years, the state has worked on changing the law so that the landowner can not be found libel in a "gross negligence" case. The key word is "gross negligence" and I have checked with my company lawyer and as he put it, "your in a boat, going under the water where air breathers are not meant to go, so what is wrong with this picture". He also said these are worst case scenarios and probably will never happen, just be well insured. I had an employee fall asleep at the wheel of one of my pickups and hit someone so I am real careful about exposure. In this case I had a great legal team and the poor woman was well taken care

 

[Gary D.]

Lawyers? If it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t need any.

OK, there are good and bad ones just like any other profession. But just keep in mind that you can be sued over almost anything at anytime. If you don’t believe that come and work with us for a while.

I have been sued for saving a persons life by him and his wife for $1.1M. I have also been sued by the driver of a car who we stopped at a clearly marked roadblock with 3 of us in uniform and marked units with the overheads on. She stopped and was informed of the road closure ahead due to construction crews blasting the road side. She looked right at me, said the magic Frank Union, backed up, turned to the left, floored it and ran into me as hard as she could. I wsent over the hood, roof, over the trunk and onto the ground. So you’re thinking there is no way she could win a case like that. Not only did we have to pay for the damage to her Camaro my body caused but we gave her $125K to boot. Seems that I violated her Civil Rights.

That’s just a couple of the dozens of times for stupid things. Won some and lost some but there is no end as to what you can be sued for. And remember if it goes to a jury trial your fate is not in what is right or wrong but what the 12 in the jury feels is right, wrong or just. Don't count on a waiver to protect you in any way shape or form.

Back to boating. To make it simple the USCG has explained it this way to us. If you have a boat and take people out and “they offer” to help with expenses OK. If you take people out and “you ask” for help with the expenses in any way you could be in violation.

Gary D.

 

[Nemrod]

GaryD, it sounds like the lieyers are keeping democracy safe from you, how dare you get run over and dent her car. Did you get a waiver first? Like I said, the world would truly be better without one single lawyer anywhere. Jesus threw the money lenders from the temple, if he were to come back today I think it would read lawyers thrown from the temple. No good ever comes from no good. N