WANTED: Input on Gopro 960 vs Flip UltraHD (2nd Gen)

[joe8mofo]

So I want to get into some videoing of some of the diving I do. I have done a lot of research, but have yet to see any comparisons between these 2 cameras. So I was wondering if what I know so far is accurate and if anyone else has info which could help.

UltraHD:
Better in Low light
Has LCD screen by default
Good Color
720p 30 fps
More difficult to mount, hold steady
Not wide-angle lens
Fixed data-storage capacity
No good at macro, need 3 ft minimum from subject
case secure underwater

Gopro 960:
not so good in low light
No screen
ok color
more compact
comes with mounting accessories
better at macro
wide angle lens
needs custom flat lens
custom data storage capacity
case may unlatch underwater

Any other suggestions are also welcome!

 

[spoolin01]

Kodak Zi8
seems great in low light, not a careful evaluation
big screen
1080p, 760p/60fps, 760p/30fps, SD, one other low qual
good color
good motion capture
fixed focus, ~30" min distance
don't know the lens angle
SDHC card
expensive case ($275)
<$100 for cam

 

[flareside]

Of the choices, if the key usage will be underwater, the GoPro is really the only viable option and that is due to the wide angle lens. I've seen underwater videos with the other cameras and it is functionally impossible to hold them still enough for the video to be watchable because of the narrow angle of view. And remember if the view is the least bit narrow in air, it's going to be another 25% narrower underwater.

As far as the GoPros, skip the 960 and go with the HD model which is far more versatile both above and below water. It can also be had for $211 right now which is not much more expensive than the 960 model (Link: GoProUser.freeforums.org &bull; View topic - GoPro HD Motorsports for $211 shipped) Adding an underwater case for another $80 and you're still below $300. The Ikelite underwater case for either the UltraHD or the Kodak Z-series will run you a minimum of $260 so when you add the price of the camera, you can't come any near the economy of the gopro.

One significant advantage you missed on the GoPro was the replaceable battery. Carry an extra battery or two and you won't have to worry about the camera giving out on you. As far as the case opening underwater, it is not physically possible. While it is technically possible the latch may come open, the water pressure will always hold the case shut. I haven't had a problem with it but if you're worried, put a rubber band around it.

 

[diversteve]

If it matters Cisco shut down all production on the Flip a month ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/technology/13flip.html

There's also an LCD screen for the HD Hero Naked now - $80 http://gopro.com/hd-hero-accessories/lcd-bacpac/

 

[Will]

...There's also an LCD screen for the HD Hero now - $80 GoPro LCD BacPac

But do note, the GoPro HD 960 is NOT compatible with the LCD or Battery Backpack - You must get the 1080HD version for these accessories! I would as well - as with the flat lens - you will want to shoot in 1080 to avoid any vignetting.

 

[Gombessa]

I have a 2nd gen flip ultra hd as well as a 3rd gen (Costco version). The form factors are different so make sure the housing you get fits the right Flip. Fwiw, the newer flips are built much better, with more aluminum and less plastic.

While the new flips record 720p at 60fps and have very nice built in image stabilization, and are ever so slightly wider angle, the bitrate at 60fps matches the older flip's 30fps bitrate (both are about 9mb/s, which is why they can keep the 2hr rating with 8gb flash). This means less detail, more compression artifacts, and noticeably worse low-light performance. Pretty much for the latter reason alone has led me to keep the older gen flipHD for underwater video. You just can't have too much light down there.

 

[spoolin01]

It looks to me like most of the usability of the wider angle of view of the GoPro is lost underwater, except at 1080p-to-1080p comparisons. If you use the GoPro at 760, you get vignetting, so the usable angle of view is less than the spec - that's what I'm reading from GoPro users. With the other cameras (Zi8 for sure), you don't have vignetting at 760, so how much FOV difference is there between 760p/60fps(a better UW mode IMO) with one of the others, and the 1080p or zoomed-in 760p of the GoPro? I tried to google up some numerical specs but didn't find that info. I don't have any trouble getting steady shots with the Zi8 - I think that issue is overstated.

 

[flareside]

Vignetting is only a problem with the cheap drop in lenses. If you go with the eyeofmine housing or one of the many homebuilt solutions out there, vignetting is not a problem. I did a simple buildup of plex disks and have no vignetting at 720.

 

[spoolin01]

Thanks, I hadn't caught that about the EOM housings.

 

[joe8mofo]

Thanks for the input. Cost is obviously a factor; and this makes the gopro appealing except for the blur issue and the fact that drop-in lens replacements cause vignetting at 720p is a deal-breaker. I had heard that Gopro may be working on a better underwater housing; is there any fact to this statement or is it simply a rumor?