WE NEED TO ACT NOW! Florida's goliath grouper still need our help.

[deepstops]

I'll agree that we simply don't know enough about GG right now.

Another thing I've noticed is on the Gulf wrecks with large populations of GG, there are no other grouper species. It seems there should be a balance of blacks, gags, GG, etc. and I simply don't see other grouper species on wrecks like the Bayronto, Fantastico, Stoney Point, etc., which are all wrecks dominated now by GG.

That being said, my first encounter on a GG dominated wreck was in southern Dade County in 1999 where my buddy and I shot three 20-25 lb. blacks and had to tie the stringer to the anchor when bull sharks showed up. After we'd ascended about 30' up the line, we watched not the sharks come take our catch but one of the three GG we'd seen earlier come and pop the SS stringer and literally inhale 60-75 lbs of black grouper.

It's not s stretch to realize why there are so few groupers from the other species on many of these wrecks.

It's all about balance and right now, things are out of balance in the Gulf (IMO anyway).

 

[DavidPT40]

Goliath groupers are massive predators. Its good to have some, but not too many. We dont want to have all the biomass of the entire reef tied up in goliath groupers do we? Scientific data and research takes years to complete. However, we have had divers say that they've seen Goliath Groupers totally demolish schools of juvenile snapper. So I think a limited harvest of Goliath Groupers would be beneficial, at least until the fisheries scientists finish carving their reports on stone tablets.

 

[Wayward Son]

A fish that 400 or maybe 600 lbs is gonna eat a lot of something, LOL

 

[archman]

My take on discrete sites where jewfish dominate but other large groupers is that the jewfish are much better protected from harvesting.

Thus, any perceived *imbalance* in large predator diversity is caused not by jewfish overpopulation, but continued overfishing of other serrranids.

I daresay that if other big groupers were put on "no take" lists, their numbers would spike too.

Therefore, opening up a jewfish harvest for "culling" purposes is counterproductive from a fisheries management perspective. Particularly since the *science* regarding jewfish is purported to be spotty enough to deem a limited research harvesting.

I say let them take their 800 jewfish, and then reimpose the U.S. fishing ban. If the data leads to the option of limited, regional harvesting, so be it. If it does not, we can look forward to seeing more and more giant fish while diving.

 

[Capt.Rich]

I would like to reply to Walt Stearns latest Underwater journal article.
There are numerous innacuracies in his article that need to be rectified.
First... Commercial industry representatives and leaders have stated emphatically that they do NOT want anything to do with any type of GG harvest.
So without a commercial market for meat there is little incentive for widespread poaching.

Second... Claims of widespread poaching are un-substantiated and unproven.
There have certainly been individual cases of poaching reported on GG just as there are isolated reports of poaching on other species as well.

Third... Claims that GG are not abundant in there historical ranges around the world are correct but I'm not sure what this argument has to do with events in the United States???
Other countries are fishing ALL of there fish to dangerously low levels.
They have extremely poor management and even poorer enforcement.
In addition... see this governent report:

The status report on goliath grouper can be read here:
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdf/Final_Status_Report_on_the_Goliath_Grouper.pdf

Fourth... spearfishing is the most selective form of harvest there is. There is virtually no bycatch or waste because a spearfisherman can see exactly what type of fish he is targeting as well as the size.
There is virtually no damage to essential fish habitat.

Fifth... You say there are "other" ways to collect needed scientific data.
I somewhat agree but as you heard at the meeting, these methods are very limited and may not yield the results needed.
A perfect example is "Fin Rays" for aging.
Fin Rays work well for juvenile fish up to about 6 years old. Beyond that age the rays become cloudy and un-useable in which case ototlith samples must be used for ageing.
You suggest that fish from Red tide events should be used.
I agree entirely but there is a misconception of widespread GG deaths during these events.
I live near Tampa Bay Florida which was the scene of one of the worst Red Tide outbreaks several years ago. I drove my boat around at length looking at the types of fish killed.
I only saw one GG floating in the bay.
IN addition... these events are very random and only occur every few years at different locations.

And finnaly... there is a mistaken belief that spearfisherman and anglers are some bloodthirsty lot looking for the extermination of Goliath Grouper.
This is quite simply laughable. Nearly all fisherman are sportsman.
NOBODY wants to see GG taken down to dangerously low levels ever again!
I personnaly think that a big GG is one of the coolest fish to see underwater and I want my son to enjoy the things I have seen and done underwater.

Nobody is seeking to "annihilate these fish by illegal means or legal loopholes."

There is much we do not know about GG that we need to learn.
It was stated that the last GG assesment in 2004 showed a very wide cone of uncertainty with regards to GG recovery.
On one side of the cone it showed that GG may be recovered to the benchmark of 50% Spawning Potential Ratio (SPR) several years ago. On the other side of the cone it could be that GG may never recover to 50% SPR!
We obviously need to develop better science with which to make sound management decisions. The way to do that is to harvest enough animals to gain that knowledge.
Just like they do with every other fish...

 

[Missdirected]

Walt Stearns Article: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=198443

 

[dumpsterDiver]

The entire Florida ecosystem has been heavily impacted by man. Mangrove and estuary destruction and water quality issues are very serious concerns, yet there is contention that if we leave them alone, then the jewfish will reach an appropriate population density without any further human action.

However, this is unrealistic and grossly over simplified. All the other groupers (and other top predators) are very heavily fished right now. The ecosystem will NEVER revert back to its "natural" condition or equilibrium. Rather than assume that jewfish will be self limiting, I take the position that it is innacurate to assume that all the other groupers can be hammered, but the jewfish need to remain untouched as their population explodes.


Based on my diving experince in both the gulf and palm beach areas, jewfish have made a tremendously successful comeback. It used to be a special treat to see a jewfish 12-15 years ago and now we can take someone out and show them 15 fish within a 10 minute boat ride every single day. We used to only see large specimens, but now the smaller 15-30 lb juveniles are becoming much more common. Seasonal aggregations are common now and they include 50 or more individuals

Based on my unscientific opinion, if the popluation explosion continues at this rate for only a few more years, then there will be no doubt that some effort to control the population WILL need to be made. The species was clearly overfished only 20 yrs ago, but I feel that some people view these huge fish with an almost mystical viewpoint. They ain't manatees!

Many spearfisherman are very discouraged by all the fish that jewfish take from off their lines and spears. I have seen it many times. There are many spearfisherman who are killing the jewfish now because of the perception of over-population. This is obviously illegal but it is also wasteful of the resource. A freediver was killed in key west not too long ago when he got wrapped up with a jewfish he shot.

A few weeks ago, I spoke with two old timers that have been going lobstering in the keys every year for over 20 years. Both of them independently reported that they had NEVER seen so many small jewfish, especially on the small shallow ledges that they like to hunt bugs on. One of them told me he was commenting about their recent abundance to a marine patrol officer and the officer said that he COMMONLY sees dead jewfish floating on the surface. He was quite sure that this mortality was intentionaly caused by hook and line fisherman who catch the jewfish and refuse to vent their air bladders leaving them to float off into the sunset to die. Hook and line fisherman report that many inshore artificial reefs are "worthless" to them because nearly any decent fish they hook will be eaten by the abundant jewfish that have been habituated to taking hooked fish. Hook and line fisherman are now deliberately killing these fish, another big waste of the resource.

Many fisherman feel that the jewfish are taking all the desirable fish and lobsters from the reef and for this reason alone that the jewfish need to be culled. I don't really care if the jewfish are eating economically important fish or "worthless" ones, but I think we need to take a rational look at their abundance and make an imformed decision about when the species can support a limited harvest.

If this issue were raised 5 years ago, my opinion would be very different because we did not see the abundance and also the juveniles were largly absent from the population, but SOMETHING will need to be done in the next few yrs. A one-time harvest of 800 jewfish will do nothing significant to the population. I just hope that if/when these 800 specimens are collected, that the scientists will have the objectivity to deliver a realistic recommendation.

 

[archman]

That something will more than likely be tighter catch restrictions on other fish species. Fisheries biologists and natural resource managers would never support an ecological band-aid action that functionally undermines a species protection plan that is actually showing effectiveness.

There might be some *slight* relaxation allowing a wee bit of jewfish to be caught. Maybe like tarpon tags; one tag, one fish. I think eventually most large fishes will end up being recreationally regulated this way in the U.S.. Status of fishery reports seem to be on a perpetual downward spiral for almost every medium to large species not under a total catch ban. I don't even bother to read most reports anymore... they all say the same thing.

 

[Biminibill]

The entire Florida ecosystem has been heavily impacted by man. Mangrove and estuary destruction and water quality issues are very serious concerns, yet there is contention that if we leave them alone, then the jewfish will reach an appropriate population density without any further human action.

However, this is unrealistic and grossly over simplified. All the other groupers (and other top predators) are very heavily fished right now. The ecosystem will NEVER revert back to its "natural" condition or equilibrium. Rather than assume that jewfish will be self limiting, I take the position that it is innacurate to assume that all the other groupers can be hammered, but the jewfish need to remain untouched as their population explodes.

Dumpster,

Thank you for your post. I do agree that the argument is overly simplified. There is not enough space here to get deeply into fish population dynamics and as well that kind of analysis is beyond the scope of my knowledge. My point, though is exactly that. Personally, I would like to hear whether anyone has yet thought about what existing factors might create/prevent overpopulation e.g.food sources. habitat, red tide and other environmental problems etc. I also wonder if your argument about the other species getting the hell pounded out of them shouldn't be so much directed at opening the jewfish as much as considering further restrictions on these other species so they, themselves recover somewhat to reclaim their niche.

Also of note are the reports you included of jewfish being poached, regardless of motive. While it may not change the ultimate creation of a limited harvest, fishing mortality is definitely greater than zero and must be included in some form in the calculations. Thanks again for your well thought out post.

Biminibill

 

[Richesb]

Too much book research, not enough real life experience on this subject.
Go diving more often and you will see Jewfish/Goliath Groupers have become a problem in many areas.
There are many wrecks in the Gulf that can no longer be fished because of these fish. There are a couple of wrecks in the deeper water oceanside that have no fish other than Goliaths anymore. The commercial lobstermen down here are pulling 18 - 24" goliaths out of lobster traps every day - no lo0bsters. They have been eaten.

We don't make many dives spearfishing where they aren't a concern on alot of the reef.
Limited harvest is long overdue.