Wetsuit questions

[pthoma79]

Quick wetsuit question for you guys (and gals)...

My wife and I are finishing up our certs and are looking at wetsuits. We will be mainly diving in Washington State, so we are thinking at least a 7 mil suit. For certs, we have been using "base model" 6.5 mil Farmer John suits.

My question is: Will a higher quality 7 mil, non Farmer John suit provide as much warmth as a lower quality 6.5 mil Farmer John?

We have been looking at Henderson Thermoprene and Elasta Stretch suits. Or a Neo Sport 7 mil John.

Thanks for the help!

-Phil

 

[pasley]

Um... Every diver is different. I dive SoCal and I have only been to WA once diving (In February with the air temp at 17F, wind chill to Zero Water Temp 43F). But IMHO I would rethink and buy a drysuit.

February in Seattle the water will be somewhere in the 43ish range give or take. For me a 7mm would just not cut it for more than one dive and maybe not even that.

Spend some time at Edmund's or Seacrest Cove on Alaki in Seattle and see what most divers are wearing that dive often. Drysuits can be pricey, but if you look at all the mfg (DUI, Diving Concepts, Whites, Bare, OS, Body Glove, Dive Rite and others) you will find the prices vary from under $1,000 to over $4,000. Then there is the undergarment, but at the end of the day, what is the point of buying a less expensive wetsuit if you quit diving because you are cold.

My question is: Will a higher quality 7 mil, non Farmer John suit provide as much warmth as a lower quality 6.5 mil Farmer John?

IMHO No. Let us look for a moment at the two styles. Farmer John has a bottom with a bib that comes up over the chest and a jacket top that covers it. This puts two layers over your core area. So a 6.5 mm Farmer-john has 13mm of neoprene over the core area Vs non-farmer-john 7mm over the core area. That, I would think translates into more warmth, but I could be wrong.

While I am a fan of buying new, a search of Craig's List for WA Seattle area shows several used drysuits for sale: classifieds - craigslist at reasonable prices.
e-bay would probably get you more hits. By the way, I bought a new DUI drysuit, from the store with mfg warranty, that had been hanging on display for several years for, well lets just say it was reasonable, very very reasonable.

Just my $0.02. You will have to get trained on the drysuit, but in the end if you plan on diving the WA area, I bet you will dive more if you dive dry. A dry suit is well suited to a wide spectrum of temperatures with the appropriate undergarments, more so than a wetsuit.

 

[MattC007]

I think that for WA you may want a drysuit. Have you done any dives in WA yet and if so, how were they, cold, okay, warm?

 

[Buoyant1]

Pasley's right...a 7mm is a 7mm and that's it! Farmer Johns add more protection to your core and give you a bit of flexability in the arms and legs (but that's a heck of a lot of neoprene to wrangle, especially when you get into deeper diving)

Personally, I use a 7mm in my local quarry, and the temps at the deeper depths get to about 43 year round. With a hood and gloves, I'm usually plenty warm during the dive! HOWEVER! This time of year when the air temps drop, you tend to get colder after the dive (or during a surface interval if you're going to "play two") so that's a huge consideration for the North West!

I'm thinking about investing in a dry suit next season...I'm the last hold out in my group that's still diving wet!

Happy diving!

 

[pthoma79]

We just did our first open water dive today in a local lake. Water temp was 51 degrees. Like I said, we wore 6.5 mm farmer johns. I was actually ok, not hot or cold. But, it was certs, so there was a lot of standing around or just hanging out, not a lot of movement. The main thing was my hands, because we had garbage gloves with holes in a few of the fingers.

Tomorrow we go out into Puget Sound, and looking at the temp on the internet, the water is 53.5 degrees.

Anybody have experience diving in these temps? If so, what do you use?

 

[Buoyant1]

Good gloves make it better! Mine are now worn out and my hands got very cold on my last few dives!

53.5 isn't bad at all! I'd do it in my 7mm (after I invest in the new gloves!)

 

[Doc Intrepid]

We just did our first open water dive today in a local lake. Water temp was 51 degrees. Like I said, we wore 6.5 mm farmer johns. I was actually ok, not hot or cold. But, it was certs, so there was a lot of standing around or just hanging out, not a lot of movement. The main thing was my hands, because we had garbage gloves with holes in a few of the fingers.

Tomorrow we go out into Puget Sound, and looking at the temp on the internet, the water is 53.5 degrees.

Anybody have experience diving in these temps? If so, what do you use?

I have quite a bit of experience diving in Puget Sound, and I also have to agree with Pasley. INHO, you would be smart to do a couple things before you invest in wetsuits.

First, go to a couple of the local dive spots around Puget Sound, Sunrise Beach, Edmunds park, Alki, wherever local divers congregate. Check and see what the majority of them are wearing.

Second, compare and contrast. There are a number of shops around that rent drysuits. Rent one before you spend around $500-$600 or more for a couple 7mm wetsuits.

The bottom line is that even in summer the water in Puget Sound is pretty cold. As your exposure (times) get longer, that second dive is going to be tougher.

And another point is that even in the summer, out on a charter boat the wind can chill you during a surface interval. In a drysuit you may find that you're more comfortable during the surface interval in between dives.

Drysuits are more expensive to purchase, particularly when you're buying for two divers. But they will last for quite a long time with perhaps just neck and wrist seals replaced, and you can amortize the cost of the suit over the length of time you expect to use it.

Besides, the bottom line is that when a diver is cold and uncomfortable, they don't enjoy the diving as much. And then they ultimately find something else to do.

Spend some time checking out what people wear, and/or ask around your club or a scuba club in your area. There are often diver's who are selling drysuits, or buying new ones and selling their old ones, etc. It would be worth your time to check it out before you drop serious ching either way - and its a major decision. Divers who are extremely cold are not having any fun, and under certain circumstances can be a danger to themselves and others.

Regards,

Doc

 

[CamG]

Greetings pthoma79 welcome to SB. You have received some great advice on your thread. I would really encourage you to check out your local scene and in particular the water temperatures. If they are cool even in the summer I would seriously consider the dry suit option. It seems like a big step but one that you will never regret! If it keeps you in the water and diving then it is worth it!
Personally I dive a Pinnacle 7mil Elastiprene merino with the 5/3 merino hooded vest in the local quarry. When it gets to diving deep or mid September the dry suit comes out and it is so very comfortable.
Diving dry is awesome but please if you decide to go that route put Pee valves in asap!
This is a must, trust me on this one or check out my thread on Advanced Scuba questions forum. It can be very uncomfortable when nature calls in a dry suit!
Good luck with your search and safe diving to you both!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[NEsilentDiver]

I dive in similar temp waters here in New England, I bought 7mm Henderson hyperstretch FJ's for my wife and I. They were okay, but the knapping of the material wears out the suit quickly. No matter what my wife was cold.

If you like the sport and can afford it, buy a dry suit. I just bit the bullet and spent 6K + for two DUI dry suits for my wife and I. I am now kicking myself for not being able to get back the 800+ for the two 7mm that I bought some time ago.

There are many benefits that go beyond comfort to include off-gassing properties. Gas diffusion is easier when your tissues are warm. So what happens when you dive in a wet suit in Washington? In the beginning of the dive you are warmer and Nitrogen is diffusing faster into your tissues, as you get colder and start to ascend, it is harder to remove the Nitrogen, especially in your extremities where you may even be numb from the cold at this time. The result, you might get DCI or slightly bent, I have seen it on relatively non aggressive dives due to the cold.

add in the ability to extend you diving year round and be more comfortable while you are in the water and you have a winner. Think redundancy as well, with a drysuit you now have a redundant buoyancy system (emergency only) to get you back to the surface if you tear your wing or have an uncontrollable leak.

If I were to do it all again, and I lived in the northwest or northeast, I would bite the bullet and get the drysuit in the beginning and then a cheap 3mm for travel. This is the set up I have now and would have saved money, had more dives, a happier wife, and an extra 800 bucks in my pocket in the end.

If you are dead set with diving wet, go with a semi-dry like from waterproof or go with the goldcore from henderson, both have the best thermal properties, forget the hyperstretch the flexibility is not the best trade off with heat loss compared to the goldcore.

best of luck.

Tom

 

[spectrum]

My question is: Will a higher quality 7 mil, non Farmer John suit provide as much warmth as a lower quality 6.5 mil Farmer John?

As a practical matter there is little difference. The tolerance in skiving the rubber can provide just as much variation. Focus on other factors.

We have been looking at Henderson Thermoprene and Elasta Stretch suits. Or a Neo Sport 7 mil John.

Thanks for the help!

-Phil

The more it stretches the less bubble integrity and warmth you will enjoy. My wetsuit topic may be good reading for both of you right about now.

I am partial to a full suit and hooded step-in vest to getup to 2X on the core and groin while getting a seamless hood integration.

Pete