What is the point of certifications?

[Eric Sedletzky]

My fifth dive after OW I was on a boat out of Monterey diving outside of Point Lobos doing a 95' dive on a wall. Later I think at dive 35 or 40 after doing many deep dives I took AOW (because I needed it to go on vacation) and the big bad deep dive was to 65 feet.
When I got a drysuit years ago I called my buddy who was a tech diver and he told me to do this this this and that. The next day we went out and I did what he told me and never took a class. I dove dry for years while doing my tech stuff.
When I took nitrox they required two ocean dives to complete the course. The shop I took the class from didn't have nitrox, they just supplied the class. In order to get the nitrox I needed to go all the way to Monterey 3 hours south to get two tanks to be able to complete the class and get the cert. Why do they require 2 dives??? I would think the theory is the relevant part. I already knew how the breath compressed gas at depth.

 

[Lorenzoid]

As others have said, the main purpose of certification is to help protect other people who may assist you in diving against liability in the event you get injured or die. If they are sued, they can attempt to use the fact that you hold a certification as evidence that they acted reasonably in doing whatever it was they did to assist you (e.g., selling you an air fill, taking you out on their boat, etc.).

So far in this thread, activities that have been likened to diving include rock climbing, dirt bike racing, skydiving and flying. I think whether communities that promote dangerous sports/activities choose to adopt a certification system depends on the ease with which a participant's error can result in death and the extent to which other people will be involved in assisting the participant. I could very well see the rock climbing community adopt a certification system IF rock climbing were more like diving, where you have planeloads of minimally competent people wanting to rent climbing gear, engage guides to take them up the cliffs, etc. Climbing is not practiced the way diving as a recreational sport is practiced. Same for dirt bike racing. I can't think of any sports that are really analogous to diving. The certification system is a pretty good way to attempt to protect people in the industry.

 

[gcarter]

just liek the days gone by of trades, find a mentor/buddy.... take it slow...

Not always practical.

Example: I just picked up a used dry suit. I could figure it out on my own, but I will learn some tricks and get into proper trim faster with some help.

I know people who dive dry, but I am not inclined to "bother" them - I don't regularly dive with them.

Or, I could just pick an instructor and do the course. I get to shortcut my learning and I don't inconvenience anyone.

It isn't about the cert per se. It is about the training, and it is about doing it on my terms in my time rather than imposing on someone else and depending on their schedule.

Having said all of that I am open to offers for dry suit mentoring...

 

[Foxfish]

With the risks associated with scuba diving a certification course seems the best way to learn to to dive....

if the course you are doing is recognised within the sports diving industry and by the relevant authorities and
if the course material addresses all the risks you are likely to encounter within your level of certification and
if you have experienced, competent instructors and
if the instructors are able to teach the course in a time frame and environment that allows the students to develop the required competence and
if the course represents value for money and is affordable

If not, then the water becomes murky.

 

[old diver 432]

You obviously have extensive knowledge of the costs of running a dive center I suppose...

yes I do started diving at age ten still going strong at age 73 30 years commercial work owned commercial diving service and a dive shop 20 years really disappointed with money grabbing dive shops poor so called scuba certifications ie: certifications and patches for anything and everything as long as the student keeps coming up with the cash its a real joke. What is needed is more shops with qualified instructors teaching a realistic course unfortunately not all students will pass but those that do will live to enjoy the sport for many years.

 

[scubastingray]

Not always practical.

Example: I just picked up a used dry suit. I could figure it out on my own, but I will learn some tricks and get into proper trim faster with some help.

I know people who dive dry, but I am not inclined to "bother" them - I don't regularly dive with them.

Or, I could just pick an instructor and do the course. I get to shortcut my learning and I don't inconvenience anyone.

It isn't about the cert per se. It is about the training, and it is about doing it on my terms in my time rather than imposing on someone else and depending on their schedule.

Having said all of that I am open to offers for dry suit mentoring...

Some people don't mind having a dive buddy. If you offer to buy their fills I'm sure most people would love the practice too.

 

[al248005]

I completely agree with taking a drysuit course. Things can go bad very quickly to an inexperienced drysuit diver.

 

[Stoo]

One thing drilled into us is that one of the common elements in tech diving accidents is diving beyond your training.

Have you ever noticed that the ones trumpeting this are the ones that do the training?

I don't disagree that advanced training is a really good idea when the new type of diving is drastically different than a divers experience. Your example of cave training is perfect... Take an OW diver and toss him into an overhead environment, and many of them will have problems. Beyond the necessary skills to survive, the training will also enhance the divers enjoyment of the new environment. It probably also allows a much-accelerated introduction into new environments.... which I guess is a good thing. I have logged about 5000 dives in a variety of environments, including under ice, and penetrating wrecks. I dive solo most of the time, so I'm pretty good at sorting out small problems before they become big problems. I am confident that I could carry out a modest cave dive without incident. I don't think I'd recommend this to someone with 50 dives. They simply don't have the library of experiences that a more experienced diver does, so the course will move them forward in a large leap...

I will also readily admit that there is LOT'S I presumably don't know about cave diving and so I would also benefit from the training...

 

[TSandM]

The guy whose name is on my OW card dove for years before getting certified. You can certainly do it.

Certification is useful because diving is a world-wide sport. If you go to dive in Australia, the dive op would like to know that SOMEBODY has vetted your ability to manage this equipment underwater and determined you're unlikely to drown yourself. Your buddies on the boat would like to know that you've been exposed to a standardized curriculum of information about the sport, even if you didn't retain much of it.

The value of certification really becomes manifest in our GUE diving community. If you have a GUE cert, any other GUE diver you meet up with has a very reasonable expectation of what you know and what you can do. I feel comfortable cave diving with any GUE cave certified diver (and I have done this). This is what certification ought to mean.

 

[Foxfish]

With the risks associated with scuba diving a certification course seems the best way to learn to to dive....

if the course you are doing is recognised within the sports diving industry and by the relevant authorities and
if the course material addresses all the risks you are likely to encounter within your level of certification and
if you have experienced, competent instructors and
if the instructors are able to teach the course in a time frame and environment that allows the students to develop the required competence and
if the course represents value for money and is affordable
if the diver becomes competent in what is taught and continues to use it after becoming certified
if there is good agreement between the various sports diving agencies on what they teach.

If not, then the water becomes murky.