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Captain's who make such calls without thier DMs' input are also to be avoided.Oriskany Divemaster:
What pressure to end a dive? A debate!
- Thread starter Codyjp
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You have to draw the line somewhere, I don't think it's ever been said, "feel free to use less gas and get on the boat with more than 500". The "rule" be back with AT LEAST 550 psi might get a few divers to think about their gas supply and possibly check their gauges more often. It's better to say be back with 500 psi than to say have a nice dive, see you whenever.
It would be nice if resorts had a few more "bigger" tanks, some AL 100's or 120's maybe.
There are divers out there with skills AND big SAC rates. Using the tank, and usually an AL 80 to control the dive isn't the best in planning either. In my case I take the gas I need to do the dive, not do the dive that the tank allows. In most cases where I am using a resort 80 there is plenty of gas to do the dives I want to do and in a few cases I have slung a 65 just in case.
It would be nice if resorts had a few more "bigger" tanks, some AL 100's or 120's maybe.
There are divers out there with skills AND big SAC rates. Using the tank, and usually an AL 80 to control the dive isn't the best in planning either. In my case I take the gas I need to do the dive, not do the dive that the tank allows. In most cases where I am using a resort 80 there is plenty of gas to do the dives I want to do and in a few cases I have slung a 65 just in case.
R
redacted
Guest
I much prefer the boats that simply require you to plan your dive, plan your gas, and don't run out. Spending 10 to 15 minutes ascending from 30 ft to the surface is better than rushing your ascent so you don't violate some standard reserve requirement.
The DMs often will insist you get back with some amount of air ---it is not uncommon. I have never actually seen one bench a diver for that.
If you cannot accomplish the dive with the equipment on hand and have an adequate reserve (you define adequate--not arguing--I plan my dives for a reserve) then you need different equipment--larger tanks or you need to scale the dive back. That is why planning a dive--any (all) dive is important.
If your new to an area and the DM asks you to do a certain thing, it might be wise to take his advice and pay attention and if it prove later in error, well, it usually isn't.
When I dive from my boat, I am the DM and I tell myself and then I bench myself when I don't stick with my plan?--nah. No, just drift over the horizon never to be seen again.
Observation about DM and local divers, often diving with such people, you can learn a bunch, not from what they say only but also from what they do. The things they do they do because they work.
N
If you cannot accomplish the dive with the equipment on hand and have an adequate reserve (you define adequate--not arguing--I plan my dives for a reserve) then you need different equipment--larger tanks or you need to scale the dive back. That is why planning a dive--any (all) dive is important.
If your new to an area and the DM asks you to do a certain thing, it might be wise to take his advice and pay attention and if it prove later in error, well, it usually isn't.
When I dive from my boat, I am the DM and I tell myself and then I bench myself when I don't stick with my plan?--nah. No, just drift over the horizon never to be seen again.
Observation about DM and local divers, often diving with such people, you can learn a bunch, not from what they say only but also from what they do. The things they do they do because they work.
N
OP
Codyjp
Contributor
Glad to see such a lively conversation!
It seems that all will agree on the falacy of the '500psi rule'. I'm glad I didn't get burned for that! Now, it seems that is up to all of us as individuals to decide on a methode to calculate our 'surfacing pressure'.
As has already been said the amount of gas we return with is directly affected by the conditions that we are planning to dive. A wreck diver had better be returning with a lot more gas than an experienced diver diving a reef at 15'.
It seems that all will agree on the falacy of the '500psi rule'. I'm glad I didn't get burned for that! Now, it seems that is up to all of us as individuals to decide on a methode to calculate our 'surfacing pressure'.
As has already been said the amount of gas we return with is directly affected by the conditions that we are planning to dive. A wreck diver had better be returning with a lot more gas than an experienced diver diving a reef at 15'.
Oriskany Divemaster:
The place to start, IMO, is teaching new divers that what they should be doing is reserving enough gas to get them and their buddy to the surface should one of them suffer a total loss of gas at the furthest point in the dive. Assuming that emergency gas isn't needed and depending on the dive and the tanks used that might mean getting back on the boat with 500 psi or it might mean getting back with 1500 psi. Right off the bat we can see that it makes more sense to talk in terms of volume rather than pressure.
MikeFerrara:
I don't think it's unreasonable for the DM to tell divers to be back on the boat with 500 PSI and assume they know how to accomplish this task through dive planning. It's likely an incorrect assumption, but then so is assuming they can find their way back to the boat, or assuming they can actually control their buoyancy.
If I'm the DM on a boat, I'm not going to teach gas management to everyone on the boat. That's not my function as a DM. Yes, there's a serious problem with divers not knowing how to plan their air/gas supply for their dive, but to switch the responsibility to the DM rather than to their instructor is wrong. Divers should understand this aspect of planning their dive long before they see the DM who tells them to be back with 500 PSI.
Walter:
I was just identifying what I thought was a good starting point. I wasn't suggesting that we shift the responsibility to the DM.
If it isn't a guided dive, all the DM needs to do is brief the site and conditions. IMO, if the DM is going to say anything at all in regard to gas planning it should be something of value. I don't think this 500 psi stuff is of any value and in fact is liable to mislead more divers than it helps. We can see that just from the number of people who think that's the way they should be diving.
MikeFerrara:
The "how to complete your dive" (the part they usually make after the site briefing) section of the dive briefing is usually part of the reminder to vacation divers to come back with air in your tank. Not to teach a lesson - I don't think its bad to say to one of these vacation divers "be back with 500 psi" - it gives them something to think about.
I hope I have the basics here
... getting back on board with 500psi is OK (?) .. it just should not be by accident .. it should be calculated what psi you need to return to the line, and psi needed at the line to start your assent
... getting back on board with 500psi is OK (?) .. it just should not be by accident .. it should be calculated what psi you need to return to the line, and psi needed at the line to start your assent
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