Which car?

[1RUSTYRIG]

Wagons are peffect for most Americans. Most of our driving is on paved roads, with one driver and occasionally a passenger. Yet we quite often need to carry a lot of stuff on the weekends. Wagons gives us the space benefits of an SUV when we need it, without suffering the poor handling and economy.

You a boomer by any chance? Self indulgent baby boomers killed wagons in the U.S. because they didn't want to buy cars like their mommy had. But of course they needed the room of a station wagon, so we now have millions of surbanites driving oversized SUVs even though they go off road approximately never.

Today, the boomers' kids don't want to buy their parents' vehicles, yet they need vehicles that can carry their snowboard gear, so we are finally seeing a rebirth in wagons and hatchbacks.

Alex

No, I am not a "boomer", I am a boomer's kid. Though I do like your choice of words there..."Self indulgent". I don't think that American culture is adverse to wagons because their mommy drove one, I think they died out because they were ugly and didn't answer our desires for horsepower or towing capacity.

I drive what I drive because it pleases me. I like sitting up high and having a better view of the road and other drivers. I like being able to tow 13,000 lbs when I need to. Its preference, not indulgence.

 

[1RUSTYRIG]

The military ones were the ones I fell in love with and H1 is the closest you can get to that.

Yeah, I loved mine when I was in the Army...but then again, I got to flog it like a rented mule and didn't have to pay for it or maintain it beyond basic preventative services.

They weren't really designed to be a "trail" 4x4. They were designed to be a utility truck that could accept a wide array of weapons and service platforms and still be stable (which is why they are sooooo wide).

 

[lowwall]

I don't think that American culture is adverse to wagons because their mommy drove one, I think they died out because they were ugly and didn't answer our desires for horsepower or towing capacity.

I drive what I drive because it pleases me. I like sitting up high and having a better view of the road and other drivers. I like being able to tow 13,000 lbs when I need to. Its preference, not indulgence.

Ugly? I think SUVs are ugly. And they only died out in the U.S., the rest of the world continued to buy them without any problems, which suggests that their disappearance here is purely due to image rather than utility. Horsepower isn't a real issue, you can put the same engines in a wagon as you can in any other car. Sitting up high simply means you are more prone to rolling.

OK, if you gotta' tow 13,000 pounds then you need a truck. Large animal veterinarians in North Dakota also need them. But most people never tow and never go off-road. Burning the gas to haul around an extra 1000+ pounds of vehicle that you don't need just because you think it looks macho is indulgence.

Alex

 

[1RUSTYRIG]

Sitting up high simply means you are more prone to rolling.

Rolling over the top of people in station wagons maybe

Burning the gas to haul around an extra 1000+ pounds of vehicle that you don't need just because you think it looks macho is indulgence.

I don't drive anything because of machismo.

That's the problem with people these days...who are you to say what I do or don't need? The only justification that I need to purchase vehicle XYZ is my personal preference.

OF course, I could indulge and go fork out the extra cash for a hybrid/electric car that makes me think I am doing my part for the environment. That is, until I buy a clue about the caustic process of battery manufacturing and disposal and learn it would have been more environmentally sound to drive an internal combustion engine all along.

 

[lowwall]

That's the problem with people these days...who are you to say what I do or don't need? The only justification that I need to purchase vehicle XYZ is my personal preference.

You started this. Remember your crack about station wagons and purses? Who are you to say what I do or don't need?

Obviously what I say is not going to have any effect on what you buy. But the original poster did ask for our opinion, so prsumably he/she cares about the answers. And I like to give answers that are as close to universally valid as possible.

I know I'm new around here, but I've been posting on other forums (and Usenet in the pre-Mozilla days) since 1993. At least some people have benefitted from my advice, a couple have even mentioned me in the acknowledgement sections of their books.

OF course, I could indulge and go fork out the extra cash for a hybrid/electric car that makes me think I am doing my part for the environment. That is, until I buy a clue about the caustic process of battery manufacturing and disposal and learn it would have been more environmentally sound to drive an internal combustion engine all along.

I agree with you here. Current hybrids are a poor economic and environmental tradeoff for almost every situation. Maybe someone who does only city driving could justify one, but for most people they are as much image over substance as an Escalade.

Alex

 

[RonDawg]

So do you want to trade a car that "looks cool" versus reliability?

The car industry, at least in the US, is largely driven by "image." Most people don't drive what they truly need in a car; their car buying decisions were largely based on what their egos wanted.

If people drove ONLY what they needed, and picked a car based ONLY on practical values, the #1 selling car in this country would be something like the Suzuki Forenza station wagon. When you really think about it, it's all the car most people would ever need. But for most people, that's certainly not the case now is it?

 

[Adrenalinerush]

We have to keep in mind that this is his first new car (a bit odd considering he states that he's in his late 20's, but ok) and he might not know which cars have proven reliability.

Adrenalinerush...if I were in your position, I would buy a copy of Consumer Reports Car Buying Guide to assist with your decision. It's $6 well spent.

Ahh, I was living over seas for work and when I came into the states I was living in the city and had a company car. didn't really see the need to buy a car till I got laid off ( thus losing the car) and now living in the burbs

 

[lowwall]

Adrenalinerush -

Has any of this helped? Any remaining questions?

 

[CBulla]

How the heck do you get 16 tanks plus gear in that thing? My husbands friend had his Wrangler parked in our garage and my HHR sitting beside it. The cargo area in the HHR was twice as long as the Wrangler if both had the back seats down. We rented a Wrangler in Vegas and getting the 80 year old in-laws in and out of the back seat of that thing with the top up was interesting to say the least I hope the lift kit and tires you have on yours make it ride better than stock because the one we rented rode like a jackhammer. They are great for going places cars can't get to but if I'm going 4-wheeling I want a Hummer H1---yeah baby!
Ber :lilbunny:

I took the back seat out... I put it back as needed, but for the most part its a moot point. Laying flat, alternating rows 4 wide/4tall. I used spare weights to chock the tanks so they didn't slide around.

The suspension is much nicer than stock. It'll out drive an H1/2/3 on any trail in just 2wd simply because it weighs 1/2, is half as wide, and 1/3 as long. I still haven't got it stuck in one of the cess pools of mud here.. then again its all sand based and looks like something that you'd fill a pie with vs. 'tar pits'. I'm also one of the few cars on the road navigating debris after the 'canes have passed us the past 2 years. The doors and top have been gone the past week and its made for nice driving

I need to work up something to store tanks in the back while I dive... securely. I've got a plan in my head just haven't made it yet. When I do, I'll post it for others.

 

[MikeC]

Adrenalinerush -

Has any of this helped? Any remaining questions?

Yes, the original post was a week ago. Have you been test driving lots of cars? Do you have salespeople calling you? Come on boy!! This isn't like trying to decide between steel tanks and aluminum tanks.