Would you accept O2 without qualification?

[miketsp]

First comment: Polls should be more specific. I answered it making alot of assumptions but I still responded to the poll.

Just curious. I don't really see how to make my question more specific.
It's a situation that could easily arise.
You got back to the boat with suspected DCI, there's a full bottle of O2 on the rack & nobody around is qualified as an O2 provider.
Pretty simple, take it or leave it.

The only main issue that I could possibly see is if the cylinder is up to date with safety inspections but even that doesn't come into the question here. It's accepted that medical gases in general have an indefinite shelf life - this has been discussed on other threads.
So what did I leave out?

Several times I have got back to a boat early because we did a deeper shorter profile while the DM is off with the main group doing a longer shallow dive with the main group, and the only person on board is a sailor.
So the situation can arise.

 

[RIDIVER501]

How about : If you were out diving and after coming up from the dive you were experiencing the sign and symptoms of DCS, You were conscious and there was O2 available, Would you accept that O2 from an unqualified person?

I assumed all of the above. because I was assuming I needed the O2, I was assuming O2 was available and was assuming I was consious to make the decision to accept or not accept.

that is what I mean by more specific....the original question was vague enough to elicit inaccurate response...how do you know all your yes were a result of people saying they didn't care. or responding yes because they thought they were going to be given the O2 anyways?
Becuase the poll question is vague the result are suspect and potentially unreliable. Not that you are looking for reliable info, just most peopl don;t conduct polls for polls' sake. there usually is a reason either to identify a trend or to prove or disporve a theory.... if your results can be deemed unreliable then they are open to credibility attack if you plan on using them to support an argument.

 

[miketsp]

How about : If you were out diving and after coming up from the dive you were experiencing the sign and symptoms of DCS, You were conscious and there was O2 available, Would you accept that O2 from an unqualified person?

I assumed all of the above. because I was assuming I needed the O2, I was assuming O2 was available and was assuming I was consious to make the decision to accept or not accept.

that is what I mean by more specific....the original question was vague enough to elicit inaccurate response...how do you know all your yes were a result of people saying they didn't care. or responding yes because they thought they were going to be given the O2 anyways?
Becuase the poll question is vague the result are suspect and potentially unreliable. Not that you are looking for reliable info, just most peopl don;t conduct polls for polls' sake. there usually is a reason either to identify a trend or to prove or disporve a theory.... if your results can be deemed unreliable then they are open to credibility attack if you plan on using them to support an argument.

I take your point but the context of the original thread was "Is a non-qualified person who supplies O2 in an emergency likely to incur legal problems?" which I took to imply that the diver in trouble is probably unable to make his wishes known, either in a lot of pain or unconscious.
So the real question is "Would it be acceptable to you if an unqualified person tried to help you by supplying O2 in an emergency".

It is quite clear from many of the posts that a conscious diver would be saying "Give me the O2 and open the tap!" which would of course exempt the offerer from any future problems.

 

[medic_diver45]

I should add a rider to my first post above.
For the purposes of this poll, I assume we are talking about divers that have been medically cleared to dive.
As far as I know, oxygen has only been found to worsen certain medical conditions such as strokes and other cardiac related problems. These people shouldn't be diving.

OK....I'm a respiratory therapist- meaning that giving oxygen and being an expert on it is what I do for a living. Let's get a few things straight about O2:

1. The only situation where oxygen is going to be IMMEDIATELY detrimental to a patient's condition is the case of a person with very severe emphysema (COPD) where it CAN (not always) depress the drive to breath. These people can barely walk without collapsing from lack of breathing- so I don't think you will find them on dive boats too often.

2. Any stroke (such as what is caused by an air embolism to the cerebral circulation) or cardiac event is an indication to GIVE oxygen not withhold it. Same goes for DCS, asthma, massive blood loss, or any other condition that is producing signs of shock, etc. It is better, when it comes to O2, to commit an error of commission than an error of omission (basically it's not going to hurt 99.9999%, and if it does anything at all it'll be helping).

3. In the vast majority of states, the good samaritan acts will cover you if you do something in "good faith"; basically if you do something that an average person (usually termed a "prudent layperson") with the believe and intention of helping the victim.

4. The only "common" (meaning happening with any frequency at all) complications from O2 are from HIGH CONCENTRATIONS FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME (oxygen toxicity) and we are talking days.

As a medical professional, I would not hesitate to give oxygen to anyone who has "taken a hit". When in doubt, give O2. I would want nothing less for myself.

Stephen Richey, CRT, EMT-I/D
Certified Respiratory Therapist; Intermediate Emergency Medical Technician

 

[Seabear70]

Ok, how about this as a poll...

Maybe we should ask how many people after realizing the risk they would be putting themselves in would give O2 to an unconsious diver? Realize that you may be sued if you do not as well...

 

[RIDIVER501]

I take your point but the context of the original thread was "Is a non-qualified person who supplies O2 in an emergency likely to incur legal problems?" which I took to imply that the diver in trouble is probably unable to make his wishes known, either in a lot of pain or unconscious.
So the real question is "Would it be acceptable to you if an unqualified person tried to help you by supplying O2 in an emergency".

It is quite clear from many of the posts that a conscious diver would be saying "Give me the O2 and open the tap!" which would of course exempt the offerer from any future problems.

yes it would definitely help get the point across because I you see the assumptions I made were incorrect but were based on info you provided.

 

[GoBlue!]

Sigh. I doubt he's looking to publish the data. The poll stimulated an interesting discussion which encompassed both the "assumed" and the "intended," so it was a success.

Jim

 

[Seabear70]

Ok Andy, I'm here...

Care to tell us about the legal liability of administering O2 to an injured diver?

 

[H2Andy]

Care to tell us about the legal liability of administering O2 to an injured diver?

i don't know. i have not made a career in personal injury.

i can generally tell you the following:

1. in Florida, the Good Samaritan law should cover someone,
whether a professional or not, who helps a victim. if oxygen
is nearby and oxygen is administered, they should be covered
for that as well.

2. the more you know about CPR and O2, the higher the
scrutiny will be.

3. if you have deep pockets (some sort of insurance), you
are more likely to be sued.

sorry, this is just not my field

 

[Seabear70]

i don't know. i have not made a career in personal injury.

i can generally tell you the following:

1. in Florida, the Good Samaritan law should cover someone,
whether a professional or not, who helps a victim. if oxygen
is nearby and oxygen is administered, they should be covered
for that as well.

2. the more you know about CPR and O2, the higher the
scrutiny will be.

3. if you have deep pockets (some sort of insurance), you
are more likely to be sued.

sorry, this is just not my field

I understand hat this is not your field, but shouldn't it be explained that the good samaritan law is a legal defense, not a get out of jail (or court) free card. And that if sued, they will have to attempt to prove that they acted in good faith and in a reasonable fashion?