Apparently some people/institutions/agencies think this is one of those on-the-job things. I pity the freshly certified (in a weekend of course) who then get "mentored" by the 60dive divemaster.
Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days - thoughts?
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Apparently some people/institutions/agencies think this is one of those on-the-job things. I pity the freshly certified (in a weekend of course) who then get "mentored" by the 60dive divemaster.
As someone who managed to go from OW Mid April 08, to DM / MSD mid October 08, I would have to say in the end like anything else it depends on the person.
hannahevan
Contributor
i sencond that well said
hannahevan
Contributor
Jupiter31
Contributor
While it does depend upon the person, and could be done, my 30+ years diving experience (and 54 years life experince - and 5 year membership in AARP : ( tells me the following:
While I don't think you need 30 years experience, and to be approaching senior citizen discount age to become a DM, I do know that diving is a process with skills and experience built over time with lots of diving, in different weather, conditions and so forth.
What is the number? I don't know, but to me its way more than 60 dives and a hellofva lot longer than 30 days.
30 day hero's don't impress me.
During World War II, young, college educated men were given the opportunity to become commisioned officers via a 3 month program - it gave rise to the saying "90 day wonders" b/c while intellegent, and well trained, they just did not have the same experience as a person their age who went to the service academies or who was already serving as a junior officer.
This is not all that different - and if I lived in the 1940's, I know who I'd want as my commander if I was in the military.
While I don't think you need 30 years experience, and to be approaching senior citizen discount age to become a DM, I do know that diving is a process with skills and experience built over time with lots of diving, in different weather, conditions and so forth.
What is the number? I don't know, but to me its way more than 60 dives and a hellofva lot longer than 30 days.
30 day hero's don't impress me.
During World War II, young, college educated men were given the opportunity to become commisioned officers via a 3 month program - it gave rise to the saying "90 day wonders" b/c while intellegent, and well trained, they just did not have the same experience as a person their age who went to the service academies or who was already serving as a junior officer.
This is not all that different - and if I lived in the 1940's, I know who I'd want as my commander if I was in the military.
I know one of these zero to hero types, went all the way to instructor in about 6 months (I didnt know this was allowed, but they managed it), and started teaching. His first Advanced class was reassigned because his boss didnt have confidence in his ability to teach it after the instructor asked basic questions he should have known.
You can certainly get the requirements done in 30 days with an insane schedule, one hardly conducive to learning. I like to draw out OW so water work takes place over 3 days, even if I can do it in less, because the extra time gives students time to assimilate and analyze, rest and come back refreshed and positive. A four dive a day schedule is exhausting, physically and mentally. If the student is very good, this might be doable. But then academics on top of that? for 30 days? They could pass the tests, even ace them, but how much of this knowledge is retained?
30 days is a small snapshot in time, part of one season in one place. what about different conditions in other seasons or other places? how is a thick suit different from a thin one in weighting and feel. how is rough water different from calm, good vis vs bad, warm vs cold, fresh vs salt, boat vs shore? why does this guys rig look different from yours? how is dealing with 30 people in high season different than diving with just a few? What about the fish/geology/coral/history information your customers will surely ask you about?
No one can be expected to know everything, we are all always learning. But 30 days is not enough to prepare someone to work in the dive industry in any useful capacity. Well, maybe as a tank monkey!
You can certainly get the requirements done in 30 days with an insane schedule, one hardly conducive to learning. I like to draw out OW so water work takes place over 3 days, even if I can do it in less, because the extra time gives students time to assimilate and analyze, rest and come back refreshed and positive. A four dive a day schedule is exhausting, physically and mentally. If the student is very good, this might be doable. But then academics on top of that? for 30 days? They could pass the tests, even ace them, but how much of this knowledge is retained?
30 days is a small snapshot in time, part of one season in one place. what about different conditions in other seasons or other places? how is a thick suit different from a thin one in weighting and feel. how is rough water different from calm, good vis vs bad, warm vs cold, fresh vs salt, boat vs shore? why does this guys rig look different from yours? how is dealing with 30 people in high season different than diving with just a few? What about the fish/geology/coral/history information your customers will surely ask you about?
No one can be expected to know everything, we are all always learning. But 30 days is not enough to prepare someone to work in the dive industry in any useful capacity. Well, maybe as a tank monkey!
Clammy
Contributor
Someone on this thread mentioned that he thought an instructor should have experience in at least 4 different environments. What would be examples of those 4? Like warm water, cold water, fresh water, and my dry suit has icicles on it cold water? Or would it be more like pacific cold, pacific warm, atlantic rough, quarry fresh or something along those lines?
I don't like the idea of a DM in 30 days at all, but to be fair, I have seen plenty of *&$*^#ing awful DMs who got trained along a more conventional timeline, so who the heck knows?
I have followed this thread with interest since it started. I'm an SSI Dive Control Specialist instructor. SSI's Dive Control Specialist is a combination divemaster/assistant instructor rating.
When I'm conducting an Open Water Diver course I like to introduce a variety of scenarios in the classroom as well as in the pool. I want new divers to appreciate the idiosyncrasies of different enviornments: what special skills will be needed, what considerations come into play when planning the dive.
If (knowing what I know today) I were a non-diver signing up for my Open Water Diver course, I would hope that at some point we would discuss and prepare plans for a range of dives with special challenges, for example:
Warm water, great viz, steep wall
Cold water, shore entry, strong tidal currents
High mountain lake, cold air, heavy silt bottom
Open ocean, free ascent with no visual references
_Cold water, shore entry, strong tidal currents
High mountain lake, cold air, heavy silt bottom
Open ocean, free ascent with no visual references
So that's a possible four. Not that four's a magic number, we could concont more.
I think I'm a better instructor for having experienced narcosis (both pleasant and dark), open-ocean pickup skiff dead in the water and drifting away, regulator freeze-ups, and silt-outs. Lessons learned the hard way, in some cases.
I was initially led to believe that sharing my stories in class was important. These days I don't usually tell those stories. Instead I try to minimize the number of lessons my students will have to learn the hard way.
-Bryan
simmonsjr
Contributor
So, here's my two cents (from an AOW who is hoping to become a DM in the not so distant future). If I had the time I would do this program - not to zero-to-hero it, but because there can be great benefits to immersion based learning experiences (for example it is the best way to teach an adult a foreign language). Living this program for a whole month and being constantly in the DM mindset will produce the habits that are key to being a professional in any field. That being said I would modify their approach slightly. First off I would make rescue diver a prerequisite to the program and secondly I would follow the program with a lengthy internship under an instructor that I trusted to gain more experience outside of a training environment.
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