Safety, how much

[GrandpaScuba]

... We don't want laws governing our diving either...

There are countries in the world where diving is heavily regulated by government. We've managed to avoid that in the US by the diving industry being, mostly, self-regulating and consistant.

You may not want to follow the standard safety rules of diving, but when you have your inevitable accident, you'll only be providing more ammunition for those groups that want diving to be government regulated.

You don't want the government limiting your choices, but making poor choices will lead to just what you don't want to happen.

 

[Cacia]

There are countries in the world where diving is heavily regulated by government.

Where? because what I see is the most regulated places, everybody just loses respect for the laws that might actually be important.

I think it is counterproductive. A society loses it's alliance with the mainstream citizens and the inherent partnership is lost. 90% of it all now is one big technicality and guys like OJ walk, over and over. So, now you are going to regulate my snorkel? There comes a point where you can no longer take it seriously.

If they keep passing laws and don't start removing some, what happens eventually? There is already a critical mass where law enforcement in many cities don't even really *work* car thefts any more due to lack of resources. Now we have municipalities going for the "easy grabs" for revenue by fining the very citizens they have the responsibility to protect.

I try and live in a way that resists this "creep" towards erroded individual freedom.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

Where? because what I see is the most regulated places, everybody just loses respect for the laws that might actually be important.

One quick example: the 5-page medical release form used in Australia is mandated by the Aussie Government.

 

[Cacia]

So, what is the natural consequence?

It doesn't take a wild imagination...

 

[Nemrod]

DeepSeaExplorer, I too don't think of diving as dangerous or risky in any particular way but certain aspects of any activity can be and that is where the two camps part company. It is not that we want to be dangerous, it is just that we can accept some level of danger as a consequence of the pursuit of our life and interest. The other camp is safety--safety-safety--if you cannot be totally safe then don't go. There is a huge difference in the two.

N

 

[MikeFerrara]

There are countries in the world where diving is heavily regulated by government. We've managed to avoid that in the US by the diving industry being, mostly, self-regulating and consistant.

You may not want to follow the standard safety rules of diving, but when you have your inevitable accident, you'll only be providing more ammunition for those groups that want diving to be government regulated.

You don't want the government limiting your choices, but making poor choices will lead to just what you don't want to happen.

No. Diving is heavily regulated in some countries because, in those countries, everything is heavily regulated.

Quite a few of the larger agencies are multinational essentially providing the same (or very similar) industry self regulation worldwide as what we have here in the US. It didn't prevent those countries from regulating diving and it isn't what has prevented it here either.

While the dive industry likes to take credit for the lack of government regulation, I don't see any evidence that the industry self regulation has anything to do with it. We just aren't as "regulated" in the US. Diving just isn't big enough to be much of a public interest one way or the other. We can also mountain climb, race dirt bikes or fly ultralights with little or no government regulation AND without industry self regulation.

 

[TheWetRookie]

DeepSeaExplorer, I too don't think of diving as dangerous or risky in any particular way but certain aspects of any activity can be and that is where the two camps part company. It is not that we want to be dangerous, it is just that we can accept some level of danger as a consequence of the pursuit of our life and interest. The other camp is safety--safety-safety--if you cannot be totally safe then don't go. There is a huge difference in the two.

N

There is a world out to there to explore, some people want to and others don't. There is no 100% guarentee of safety.

Every day you risk your life driving, they say don't drink and drive so you don't. What happens? you get hit by a drunk driver. Now your life as you knew it is over. Get on a plane and it crashes, the boat sinks. No matter how safe you try to be, you are going to die at some point and you may have absolutley no control over it. I know some people that live their lives in a bubble in order to protect themselves, how sad. Stay away from me as I don't want to live in a bubble.

As for the original question, yes you can be sooooo safe that you will not enjoy your diving, and guess what, you can still die doing it. That one thing will go wrong and it is all over. I know, I am a pesimist.

They say that we live in the land of the free, lol, I think we live in a land of paranoid people who live in fear of enjoying life. We should send them to the mid east for a bit.

Let us, who want to explore the unkown, enjoy our diving and the rest can go back to the wading pool.

Dive responsibly and enjoy it. But then, this could be the real question, what is responsible diving? (another thread)

 

[captain]

The government will only start regulating diving when divers start killing large numbers of the innocent non diving public.

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

DeepSeaExplorer, I too don't think of diving as dangerous or risky in any particular way but certain aspects of any activity can be and that is where the two camps part company. It is not that we want to be dangerous, it is just that we can accept some level of danger as a consequence of the pursuit of our life and interest. The other camp is safety--safety-safety--if you cannot be totally safe then don't go. There is a huge difference in the two.

N

You touch on a key aspect of this entire thread: why do we do risky things. I see three classes of "risk takers":

1) those that take risk, as you say, because they enjoy doing activities that happen to have a higher level of risk. It's the activity tthey like, not the danger. Captain would ride without a helmet, I suspect, even if it were safer than wearing one, because he prefers the ride, not the risk.

2) those that take risks to achieve a goal that they or society at large deem worthy, even though they don't particularly like the risk --- they may not even find the activity enjoyable per se (a firefighter rushing into a burning building to save a life; someone climbing Everest ---it is an accomplishment, but apparently a miserable experience). Marathon running, iron man competitions and other endurance sports may fall into this category in that people take health and injury risks and endure great pain and hardship working to achieve some goal or target.

3) those that do risky things that are neither enjoyable in and of themselves, nor accomplish any goal, simply because they like the risk itself ...the you-tubers who jump off buildings or set their clothes on fire, for example.

It's like the technical instructor I knew that said he would train someone to dive to 300 feet if they had something they wanted to see at 300 feet, but not if they only wnated to dive deep for the risk itself. he would train category 1 and 2 divers, but not 3 divers.

I think we can all agree that risk can be justified for categories 1 and 2, but what about category 3? If you love to parachute from buildings, OK. But what about simply jumping through a plate glass window to get some thrill? It is the rise of category 3, spurred by movies like Jackass and the rise of the internet, that seems a hard to explain. Or are people entitled to view risk itself as a rationale goal?

 

[Cacia]

I would say I have enjoyed some number threes.

(when it's over) you feel kind of high, don't you? Thats normal, even if it is just a roller coaster.

The fun part is playing it close and calculating correctly. I would say a wreck penetration would not be fun if it was very easy and completely safe. I always thought it was biology keeping you on your toes, otherwise how would we survive in a real crunch if we did not ever practice? Practice being calm when adrenalin is pumping, practice weighing the variables, etc. You cannot just whip out that skillset when you need it, you have to have it "ready" and that is fun for many people because it makes you feel a little bit powerful.

If ALL contigencies have a ready solution, what is the point? It is not exactly great physical exercise.

I like shark dives because I like the rush of knowing they could all devour me if they WANTED to. ...Otherwise I would just go to the zoo, which I never do. The zoo is kind of intersting but certainly not exciting (unless the gorilla jumps the fence!)