Stop the Sea Shepherd

[TechBlue]

I can say them because they are factual , based on facts , not "I want to feel good" emotions.

.. "It takes drastic measures to accomplish an objective" ... is the very words used by most extremists .. using them does not justify anything they do

BTW ... I did NOT say anything about shark finning, or factory fishing boats.

I mentioned the shark finning, factory trawlers and the dolphin slaughters only because very little is being done to stop it. It is all part of the same apathy. If it only resulted in higher prices in the fish market who cares, but we are allowing our oceans to be destroyed and entire species have been obliterated. Why wait until the species needs to be placed on the "endangered list"? By then as we have found out it may already be too late.

If we continue to wait for somebody else to do something, or depend on the politicians we are all sunk. Why do they need to kill a 1,000 sharks for "research" and what is the purpose of the research? At least with his bandstanding he draws some public attention.

 

[drdaddy]

Dolphins and whales are of the same order Cetacea.

Whale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cetacea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If whales we plentiful and abundant we wouldn't be having this discussion and to my knowledge octopi aren't on endangered, or were on endangered, species lists.

Pigs are not. Squid are not. Cows are not. Tuna may soon be.

Wikipedia is not exactly a "scientific journal", and therefore using it to "prove" something carries little weight.

 

[mikemill]

Wikipedia is not exactly a "scientific journal", and therefore using it to "prove" something carries little weight.

A study was done several years back and on scientific fact wikipedia was found to be on par with other encyclopedias. So it is valid to use wikipedia in an informal discussion to say that an animal is in a particular order.

 

[drdaddy]

We spend so much time and energy on the whale thing and then link it with shark finning and then with the gorilla forest lost and then with - whatever.

Personally, I'm grieving because the most intelligent creature ("Hitchhiker's guide to the universe" may disagree) is still blowing up each other in Iraq, kidnapping/pirating off Somalia, Burma's brutal regime is still imprisoning their hero's daughter, the child sex industry in Cambodia, the world's dehumanizing sex industry, the child/slave labor in China supplying our Walmarts, and the shallow focus on fame, money, external beauty, etc. Where is sacrificial love and true compassion?

I see this anti-whaling terrorism as a poor joke that is designed to make money and give their narcisistic "skippers" the idolation of foolish people who lack a true sense of efficacy. I put these idolizers along with those that follow charlatans such as Jimmy "Swindler" Swaggart and some very well known rock star/politicians.

Those that "wave their bags of gold" before dropping it into the charity or "beat on the chests" and say "look at me" have their reward in full. These are not the "leaders" that I follow.

Those that really make a difference do it out of "love" (the highest level being "sacrificial love") and without the "world" ever "discovering" them (with the motive of never being "discovered"), and they do it one person, family, village at a time. If you want to make a difference, support one of these Human Beings, or better yet - strive to become fully Human.

 

[H2O 70]

Minke whales are plentiful, actually. Those are what is being hunted. We are having this discussion because people are ignorant about whaling. And also hypocritical and culturally imperialistic.



Listen. You made an argument about the intelligence of whales meaning they should not be eaten. If this is your argument, then it also applies to pigs and octopuses, regardless of the fact they are plentiful. Yet you are saying it is ok to eat them because there are a lot of them. Cool. But you realise minke whales are very common? So why should they not be eaten if it is a sustainability issue?

Tuna is a real issue but no one cares. They're too busy caring about minke whales, the cockroaches of the ocean.

I'm very glad that the Minke Whales is plentiful in your neck of the woods. The Minke Whales refers to two species of Baleen Whale that are supposed to roam the worlds oceans.

Up and down the Mid Atlantic and the North East of the East Coast, old whaling communities are abundant. They have moved on from whaling, because there are not enough up here to hunt and they had to find other means of survival.

Whales used to be so plentiful that they could hunt them from a row boat. Now they need a fleet of boats to chase and locate the pods.

If we can get the worlds populations of whales back up to historic levels, whale away.

Also, DAAquamaster was the one who made the comment about not wanting to consume intelligent animals. I could really care less if they are intelligent or not. Push comes to shove and you're on the menu.

Also it is octopuses or octopodes, not octopi.

I know. I just like how it sounds.

Watson has been doing this for years, he gets lots of personal publicity but his actions haven't changed anything.

He has raised awareness. We're all arguing about this.

Wikipedia is not exactly a "scientific journal", and therefore using it to "prove" something carries little weight.

Saspotato seems to think that whales and dolphins are not in the same order, which is in fact wrong. They are all Cetaceans.

Cetaceans

Does a citation from Berkly help out?

 

[TechBlue]

We spend so much time and energy on the whale thing and then link it with shark finning and then with the gorilla forest lost and then with - whatever.

Personally, I'm grieving because the most intelligent creature ("Hitchhiker's guide to the universe" may disagree) is still blowing up each other in Iraq, kidnapping/pirating off Somalia, Burma's brutal regime is still imprisoning their hero's daughter, the child sex industry in Cambodia, the world's dehumanizing sex industry, the child/slave labor in China supplying our Walmarts, and the shallow focus on fame, money, external beauty, etc. Where is sacrificial love and true compassion? Personally, I see this anti-whaling terrorism as a poor joke that is designed to make money and give their narcisistic "skippers" the idolation of foolish people who lack a true sense of efficacy. I put these idolizers along with those that follow charlatans such as Jimmy "Swindler" Swaggart and some very well known rock star/politicians.

Those that "wave their bags of gold" before dropping it into the charity or "beat on the chests" and say "look at me" have their reward in full. These are not the "leaders" that I follow.

Those that really make a difference do it out of "love" (the highest level being "sacrificial love") and without the "world" ever "discovering" them (with the motive of never being "discovered"), and they do it one person, family, village at a time. If you want to make a difference, support one of these Human Beings, or better yet - strive to become fully Human.

Can't argue with most of what you say there, human kind truly is a f**cked up species and a failed experiment which nature will shrug off and carry on. What exactly is fully human? We have left it a little late for one fish, species, ******* at a time

In the meantime I would like to enjoy the dwindling oceans and appreciate anybody that draws attention to the s**t that is going on out there.

 

[H2O 70]

Alright Saspotato, since you seem to love the Minke so much. In terms of conservation, they are classified as 'least concern'. Just because they are of least concern, doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned.



This graph shows from Norwegian whalers observation of Minke whales.

Frankly, I think the graph sort of speaks for itself.

drdaddy, wiki has a whole section at the bottom of each topic where references are cited. It may not be a scientific paper in itself, however we can see that actual sources cited.

 

[mongodives]

The Japanese are not the only country that hunts whales.
Every year I get great delight in watching people get rescued then arrested for obstructing legal whale hunts in the United States.

That might be why the Sea Shepard doesn't operate in US waters, fear of arrest and prison.

 

[drdaddy]

Tech Blue,

All species are "messed up". They do not carry within themselves the ability to regulate themselves, because there is not self-awareness. All species will "overpopulate", eat all the resourses, and then starve out - there is no "noble species" and the idea of the "noble savage" has gone out of fashion as well.

Fully Human is an individual quest that comes from denying oneself and seeking the good of the whole. It is fully devoid of narcisism and the grandiosity that goes along with it. There is no evidence that any species on our planet, other than humans, can strive for this on a planetary/universe basis. To say that the goal justifies the means of supporting charlatans such as the terrorist leaders of the Sea Shepherd is to drop to their level.

Looking inside oneself and shedding our "ego-defenses" is a step. Dali Lama, Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, are modern day famous examples. Their goal was never self. If it became self, they would be seen as such and simply be the Paris Hiltons, Politicians, and other "look at me" types. Christ taught that meditation on what is good, pure, and beautiful will give oneself a view of our putridness of self, and is the beginning of purity. The works that come out of this will only be as pure/Human as we come to be ourselves.

Identifying oneself with the narcisism of the Sea Shepherd is dehumanizing. I discovered this long ago with the 'peace' movement.

- No, I'm not "there" yet. As is evidence by the fact that my wife just yelled at me for holing up on the computer while there is work to be done. And my daughter just passed me her crying baby that I must attend to.

Got to go now.

Love and Peace,
DrDaddy

 

[TechBlue]

Tech Blue,

All species are "messed up". They do not carry within themselves the ability to regulate themselves, because there is not self-awareness. All species will "overpopulate", eat all the resourses, and then starve out - there is no "noble species" and the idea of the "noble savage" has gone out of fashion as well.

Fully Human is an individual quest that comes from denying oneself and seeking the good of the whole. It is fully devoid of narcisism and the grandiosity that goes along with it. There is no evidence that any species on our planet, other than humans, can strive for this on a planetary/universe basis. To say that the goal justifies the means of supporting charlatans such as the terrorist leaders of the Sea Shepherd is to drop to their level.

Looking inside oneself and shedding our "ego-defenses" is a step. Dali Lama, Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, are modern day famous examples. Their goal was never self. If it became self, they would be seen as such and simply be the Paris Hiltons, Politicians, and other "look at me" types. Christ taught that meditation on what is good, pure, and beautiful will give oneself a view of our putridness of self, and is the beginning of purity. The works that come out of this will only be as pure/Human as we come to be ourselves.

Identifying oneself with the narcisism of the Sea Shepherd is dehumanizing. I discovered this long ago with the 'peace' movement.

- No, I'm not "there" yet. As is evidence by the fact that my wife just yelled at me for holing up on the computer while there is work to be done. And my daughter just passed me her crying baby that I must attend to.

Got to go now.

Love and Peace,
DrDaddy

DrDaddy

Nature does a pretty good job of regulating herself.
It is unfortunate that as the ony species which is capable of a heightened awareness and the intelligence to actually make a difference is the leading cause of so much death and destruction.

Peace and love is admirable but it is not going to solve overfishing, poaching or wiping out entire species. As a Christian how can you condone this and if you don't how would you suggest we stop it?

I won't start with Gorillas, deforestation, child molesters, wife beaters, all the tribal killings in Africa, the Catholic church, or the misery and devastation that religion has brought upon us, all in the name of love.

How`s it going with the baby

Peace and love to everyone fishes and whales included.