New York tourist dies in Cozumel

[Mike]

One of the DAN physicians that spoke at DEMA made a great point. People keel over all the time. When someone drops dead during a tennis match, we don't call that a "tennis accident." When it happens when they're diving, we seem very intent it being a "diving accident."

If D. Dillehay's info is accurate, a person with a known condition and a recommendation from a physician NOT to dive, went diving and had a bad outcome. Quel surprise, as they say.

Yes, if the info is accurate. However, 'heart attack' in dive op world = "Get of Jail Free Card", or "just a heart attack folks, nothing to see here, nothing to talk about... move along... move along.. the poor SOB had a heart attack, end of story."

I'm not saying this guy did or didn't. But I'd sure like to know if when these dive death autopsys are done that they are complete and actually do go far enough to find convincing evidence to support a cause of death. I've never read anything that would lead you to believe they do, on the contrary I've seen report after report that "the island doesn't have proper equipment even to make that diagnosis" and such to that effect.

I'm not saying anybody is covering anything up, even though there is another dive death in La Paz being declared death by heart attack and a dozen divers reported a CO problem shortly around the same time. All I'm saying is "heart attack" is a nice clean way to wrap up these things in a nice bow, and move them along.

I believe CO wasn't even on the radar in Mexico up until a year or two ago when some scubaboarders here made it an issue. Were CO alarms even installed at the tank filling operation prior to that? There has been known incidents in the last year of the divers having CO poisoning diving with that dive op down south at the AI and the cave diver here recently, if any death on Cozumel doesn't raise an eyebrow to you, that's fine, to me it does. If a death easily written off as "eh, he was a fat bastard, he had a heart attack" doesn't raise an eyebrow to you, that's fine, to me it does. With Cozumel's unfortunate increase in people finding out about CO deaths, every dive related death there to me is something to be concerned with unless positively proven other wise. This is the age of Bernie Madoff, I'd like to believe that everything is perfect as roses all the time, and everyone is magically looking out for my best interests every moment, however I'll stick to Ronald Reagan's motto of trust but verify.

 

[Ayisha]

Well, which is it? There's a big difference between Cozumel and the entire country... and knowing which you mean would, I think, make a big difference to anybody evaluating their risk.

As Tigerman pretty much said, one death due to CO poisoning in a Cozumel cave recently, two cave diver deaths I believe in the Playa Del Carmen area several years ago, and 6 suspected CO poisonings, all survivors, in Coz two years ago.

The pair of deaths led to PADI removing the quarterly air quality testing last year. The six suspected cases caused an uproar by Scubaboarders with emails, letters and phone calls, leading to moving shop, as well as getting the first in-line CO monitor on the island. Maybe other shops will follow suit...

 

[Ayisha]

If you suspect a problem, do not dive with that location until they prove the air they are supplying is clean via a recent certified report.

A recent certified report is only as good as the date and time on it.

The only reliable way to know know how much CO is in the tank is with an inline CO monitor, assuming it's hooked up correctly, doesn't have alarms turned off, etc.

 

[DandyDon]

I hope part of the procedure of the autopsy involves checking for C02 poisoning.

Yes, autopsies seem to check for CO problems there, the only way we know that's what killed the cave diver there last month.

Unless it was a large number of people, why suspect carbon monoxide poisoning? If a house has a problem in the heating system, the whole family gets sick, not a single person. If tanks are filled with carbon monoxide, many people would have had problems.

Poor analogy, as everyone in the house breathes the same air, but not everyone on the boat breathes the same tank. Unfortunately only a third of US homes have CO monitors and even a smaller portion of divers check their tanks for CO. DAN admits that they have no idea how many drownings were actually CO caused as most locations do not check for CO even in autopsy, can't, or just won't release info that would harm business.

There was a death of a cave diver recently in Cozumel from CO poisoning and it was found they have no CO monitor on the island. When I asked at Scuba Club about CO they did not seem to aware this could even be a problem.

Adam

Of course they did.

I do not disput that there have been some problems with carbon monoxide posioning in various places around the world. However, if you want to know what the composition of the gas you are breathing is, a pocket CO (carbon monoxide) measuring device is not good enough. You must utilize a much more sophisticated system such as Gas Chromotography that utilizes both internal and external standards.

If you suspect a problem, do not dive with that location until they prove the air they are supplying is clean via a recent certified report.

Safe Diving

I'm glad I didn't follow that advise last year when we discovered 17 ppm in tanks on the way to do a deep dive, after testing by an anesthesiologist - who triple checked his unit when he got home. Your approach does have merit, but a well calibrated and operated personal analyzer is your last defense.

 

[Karibelle]

if any death on Cozumel doesn't raise an eyebrow to you, that's fine, to me it does. If a death easily written off as "eh, he was a fat bastard, he had a heart attack" doesn't raise an eyebrow to you, that's fine, to me it does. With Cozumel's unfortunate increase in people finding out about CO deaths, every dive related death there to me is something to be concerned with unless positively proven other wise. This is the age of Bernie Madoff, I'd like to believe that everything is perfect as roses all the time, and everyone is magically looking out for my best interests every moment, however I'll stick to Ronald Reagan's motto of trust but verify.

Any death causes me to raise an eyebrow, but I don't think in the same way for both of us. I'm kind of a "hear hoofbeats, think horses" kind of person. And for me, that means when I hear about an incident that occurs while diving my first thought is "what factors contributed" rather than "dive accident." I am aware that the past three months on the island have skewed that statistic. And having said that, I've also recently purchased a CO analyzer for personal use. I am just giving cozumel the Innocent Until Proven Guilty treatment, and as I said previously, if D. Dillehay's information is correct, this does not sound like a dive accident. And he's been around the island for some time and does not seem to slather the board with rumour.

YMMV, of course, and I do hope we get more information about the incident that will either set minds to ease, or help provide impetus to change some procedures or philosophies if necessary.

kari

 

[Bob DBF]

I believe CO wasn't even on the radar in Mexico up until a year or two ago when some scubaboarders here made it an issue.

That would be Dandy Don Quixote, who seems to be kicking some serious windmill butt as time goes on.



Bob
--------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[Christi]

As Tigerman pretty much said, one death due to CO poisoning in a Cozumel cave recently, two cave diver deaths I believe in the Playa Del Carmen area several years ago, and 6 suspected CO poisonings, all survivors, in Coz two years ago.

The pair of deaths led to PADI removing the quarterly air quality testing last year. The six suspected cases caused an uproar by Scubaboarders with emails, letters and phone calls, leading to moving shop, as well as getting the first in-line CO monitor on the island. Maybe other shops will follow suit...

Just for clarification sake:

The 6 CO poisonings a couple of years ago were at one resort who was filling their own tanks. These tanks were not filled by the central fill station that fills most ops tanks here.

Thanks to Dave Dillehay, Meridiano, the central fill station that does fill most ops tanks here now has inline CO monitors.

Obviously tanks in Playa del Carmen tanks are not filled in Cozumel so really have absolutely nothing to do with Cozumel incidents of diver death or CO poisoning here.

As has been mentioned, a small pocket CO monitor is not an accurate gauge of the CO in a tank for recreational diving purposes.

I am still not convinced that the cause of death of the Cave Diver was CO poisoning. Not only are there many conflicting reports, but no one else with tanks from the same fill station at the same time had a problem. Additionally, there are reports that his dive buddies claim that the diver had complained of not feeling well the day before or that morning, but followed through with the dive. Of course it is all hearsay, but it is hearsay from both sides. Only the Dr.'s performing the autopsy actually know!

 

[WSOPFAN]

I am still not convinced that the cause of death of the Cave Diver was CO poisoning. Not only are there many conflicting reports, but no one else with tanks from the same fill station at the same time had a problem. Additionally, there are reports that his dive buddies claim that the diver had complained of not feeling well the day before or that morning, but followed through with the dive. Of course it is all hearsay, but it is hearsay from both sides. Only the Dr.'s performing the autopsy actually know!

So your explanation of the autopsy report showing elevated carboxyhemoglobin levels would be what exactly?

 

[DandyDon]

As has been mentioned, a small pocket CO monitor is not an accurate gauge of the CO in a tank for recreational diving purposes.

Why do you say that? Do you have a way to check tanks for CO?

 

[RubberDucky]

As has been mentioned, a small pocket CO monitor is not an accurate gauge of the CO in a tank for recreational diving purposes.

I would like to see some supporting data behind this statement. It is important for those of us who have tested our own air to understand how accurate the process actually is.

Edit: I've emailed the vendor of the CO monitor that I've used in the past asking for clarification of Christi's quote shown above. I will share their response once it has been received.