In Coz: You, Your Buddy, Your Group and Your DM. Who should do what?

[MMM]

Interesting you say that. A few years ago, the dive op I booked with with here in Coz didn't have enough divers to make it economically feasible to send a boat out so I opted to go an a boat belonging to one of his friends. He told the DM before we left that they could take me anywhere. A bunch of divers on the boat wanted to do Devil's Throat and he said "no" because he hadn't seen me dive before. During the boat trip and before we hit the dive site, he changed his mind. I don't know why because DT certainly isn't my favourite dive. I have done it many, many times and can think of others sites far south I prefer. I just said "take me where you want to go and I am good with whatever." So we went to DT and all other divers on the boat were happy once again. :blinking:

 

[Mcote]

What islands are you doing?

flots.

The whole cruise is Half Moon Cay, Georgetown-Cayman Islands, Cozumel, and Key West. Shore excursion dives are only offered at Grand Cayman and Cozumel but after reading about the cattle boats and conditions in Cozumel, I'm thinking of spending my money with private operators and try to schedule nice, easy beginner level dives with more supervision. Hopefully there are enough others on the cruise ship to make it worthwhile. I haven't lived 48 years to this point just to die right after starting this fantastic hobby, there is lots more I want to see and experience!

Marc

---------- Post added April 4th, 2012 at 10:06 PM ----------

I suggest you look up Pedro Pablo at Blue XT-Sea. I have never seen a DM provide better individualized attention and despite my questioning the role of the DM on this thread, P-P is clearly one who puts your safety first.

Thanks Fred. I am planning on contacting and discussing arrangements with private operators at both Grand Cayman and Cozumel. If I can find a company willing to book beginner level, better supervised dives for me then I don't mind paying a little more. That is part of the reason I registered here. I want to dive for a long time and don't need to rush into anything over my head (if you'll pardon the pun). i will put Blue XT-Sea on my list to email/call and see if they will cater to a cruise ship newbie.

Marc

 

[Thalassamania]

Dave, that would be extremely useful information for many. I wonder if it might allay the fears that a few seem to have after reading about the recent challenging currents or the apparent hysteria caused by the false "report" of a down current in the Scuba Mau deep dive debacle.

In flying, there are several main factors leading to fatal crashes. These are not secret causal factors that silently await to smite down the most competent pilot. They are by a wide majority pilot error and preventable.

If that applies to diving as well, then divers can be on the look out for problem areas. Of course, just as pilots know (or should) the things that can kill them, diving fatality causal factors may also be things already taught and ignored.

In diving the typical accident stems from a diver's inability to properly respond to something unusual in the environment or in the function of their gear. Many of such things can be prevented by proper training, planning and execution and those that can not be prevented can usually be handled as a result of proper training, planning and response. What kills divers is the initial issue compounded by the lack of proper training, planning and execution, compounded by the lack of proper training, planning and response, compounded by the resultant panic. I rather doubt that Cozumel accidents are really much different from those that occur elsewhere; I suspect that they follow the same model. But I am very interested in your opinion as a long term observer on the site.

 

[Mcote]

Marc, get certified. Make other dives locally to gain experience. Use a private DM in Cozumel. There are plenty of great sites. You can dive Palancar at 40'-50' if that floats your boat. Right now you don't know enough to know what is safe or not. Don't let the recent currents or missing diver cause irrational fear of Cozumel diving.

Reality is that many (thousands annually???) new divers make plenty of dives safely.

Hi Ron,
No irrational fear here. Just a healthy respect for what I don't yet know. I am working towards my certification daily, Got through Section 4 of the OW manual today and passed that quiz. I have visited a couple of the local dive shops and picked one I think that seems to care about my safety and training. Thanks for your comments.

Marc

 

[fred3798]

Thanks Fred. I am planning on contacting and discussing arrangements with private operators at both Grand Cayman and Cozumel. If I can find a company willing to book beginner level, better supervised dives for me then I don't mind paying a little more. That is part of the reason I registered here. I want to dive for a long time and don't need to rush into anything over my head (if you'll pardon the pun). i will put Blue XT-Sea on my list to email/call and see if they will cater to a cruise ship newbie.


Try Wall-to-Wall in Grand Cayman. We liked them alot.

Marc[/QUOTE]

 

[Mossman]

It's not infinitesimal, since I know someone who had one and very nearly died (a different person from Mike's post above), however you're free to accept whatever level of risk you want.

Of course I am. Do you mind if I ask what sort of profiles led to the someone who you know almost dying? We've already heard from the person in Mike's post who said it was a breath-hold embolism, which sucks to be sure but it ain't the bends. Also, he made it to the boat. That's good enough for me.

 

[mstevens]

back in 1996 - I was tought and drilled into my head (PADI was about all there was back then)

Huh? PADI is by no means the oldest agency around.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 12:16 AM ----------

Suicide is against the law.

Not in any jurisdiction in the US of which I'm aware. In fact, this is true most places in the world.

 

[Sorrows]

... You go dive in Bonaire a couple of times or in Florida or California and you're going to be forced to 'grow up' for lack of a better term in regard to, "Holy sh*t, there is no dive master in the water with me, now what do I do? Do I go left or do I go right? There is nobody here to show me what to do! I guess it's up to me to actually plan my dive before I get in the water, like I was taught I was supposed to!"

I've logged about 150 dives in Bonaire and, IMHO, this is a great place for new divers--certainly a better choice than Cozumel. First off, there are boat dives and they are super-easy; there are shore dives which are as simple as jumping off a pier; it's hard to get truly lost and if you do, it's a lot safer to pop up and do a check than it would be in Cozumel. The truly advanced dives are at either end of the island and easily avoided; even with an advanced dive like, say, Karpata, the difficulty lies in the getting in and getting out and not so much with the possibility of being swept out to sea or swept down to 130+ feet. Most importantly, YOU chose where and when you go--not the case in Cozumel. I am assuming, of course, that this unfotunate couple showed up on the dive boat most likely having no idea where they would be going--and were taken to SR because that's where the other divers wanted to go. In short, diving without a DM in Bonaire isn't such a big deal. YMMV

I do think it's weird that they don't use DMs in the Florida Keys. OTOH, dive ops tend to take most of their divers--especially the new ones--to nice,calm, fishy reefs in Pennekamp. No dive op is going to take someone with no advanced training to the Spiegel Grove. And since they schedule specific days for their advanced wreck dives, new divers won't find themselves on that boat by accident. So I don't believe your comparison here is very apt, either.

As for California--they are an entirely different breed. Much tougher than the rest of us--they have to be!

 

[Mossman]

Not in any jurisdiction in the US of which I'm aware. In fact, this is true most places in the world.

OK, you may be right, but abetting a suicide is still illegal in many places. For instance, California Penal Code section 401: "Every person who deliberately aids, or advises, or encourages another to commit suicide, is guilty of a felony."

---------- Post added April 4th, 2012 at 10:34 PM ----------

No dive op is going to take someone with no advanced training to the Spiegel Grove.

I convinced J to finally get her "advanced" cert specifically because of the Spiegel Grove, then she almost kills us by swimming through the wreck at full speed until I finally chase her down and we realized we were completely lost. Fortunately when we ascended we were upcurrent of the boat and it was a nice drift back, unlike another group that surfaced downcurrent and had to be rescued.

As for California--they are an entirely different breed. Much tougher than the rest of us--they have to be!

I remember one dive off San Clemente Island when I was pretty certain I had navigated us back to the boat but when we ascended, there was no boat to be seen. WTF, the boat was in the next cove over. After a long swim with my buddy chewing me out even though I was certain we didn't go that far, I found out that boat had slipped anchor and decided to move while we were still below. Yeah, you have to be really adaptable in California!

 

[flots am]

The whole cruise is Half Moon Cay,
Georgetown-Cayman Islands,
Cozumel, and
Key West.

• Half Moon cay is nice for snorkeling if you get way off to the sides of the beach. The part where everybody swims is just open sand and no fish.
• Grand Cayman is nice for diving, although hooking up with the dive op is difficult because (IIRC) the ship might dock or use tenders, and if the weather is rough, will go to the other side of the island. Sometimes it's easier to just sign up with the ship.
• On Cozumel, most of the dive ops that have been around for at least a few years would be fine (it's a competitive market), and they're all about a $5 taxi ride away.
• Never been diving on KW, although I'm guessing it shouldn't be too hard to find someone.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2012 at 08:30 AM ----------

Of course I am. Do you mind if I ask what sort of profiles led to the someone who you know almost dying?

Ignoring a deco obligation on two consecutive dives, then taking a big hit after surfacing from the second dive, and falling back into the water from the ladder.

flots.