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Admittedly, when I worked as a dive instructor, I was spoiled. We had 16 weeks with our students, and took them from beginner all the way to what is now called AOW.

University program?

I often get 16 weeks with my students ... but the last 12 or 13 weeks is after class is over. I have a tendency to "groom" dive buddies ... :D

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
University program?

Yeah, UC Berkeley Scientific Diving program. It was extremely rigorous, starting in the '60s until the old Diving Safety Officer retired in 2005. They don't do it that way anymore, it's more like a recreational program now.

I often get 16 weeks with my students ... but the last 12 or 13 weeks is after class is over. I have a tendency to "groom" dive buddies ... :D

Among UCB divers, that kind of "grooming" and mentorship lasted for years. Many of us are still dive buddies.
 
Depends on how you define bad. Military and commercial dive training is all about safely getting a job done, most of which is surface supplied. They are not trained to care about gently floating over the bottom. However, they do know about diving physics, physiology, rescue, anticipating and analyzing risks, and safety (in addition to ship’s husbandry, salvage, burning, explosives, etc). All that I have worked with are also not likely to panic, ever. Lots of hours in black water also contributes.

Surface supplied divers also rarely develop low SAC rates in Scuba. Their gas supply is essentially unlimited, they work physically hard, and they have to breath deep to prevent CO2 buildup in their higher volume oral-nasal masks. It is a different skill-set.

One of the best diving supervisors (a US Navy Master Diver) I have ever known could suck a set of doubles dry faster than a gas turbine. However, I spent many days when my life was in his hands and never gave it a second thought.

All that said; there are always moron outliers. But in this case, it is not the fault of the training agency.

I did some diving with an ex SEAL in the Philippines. He was trained to go down and disarm nukes that had gone down on a ship or plane etc. He was definitely comfortable in the water but by Scubaboard standards of perfect trim, low air consumption, not touching anything etc....he sucked....of course, I probably do too. Great guy though.

I have always wondered why the self-appointed scuba police highlight on trim and bouyancy as the hallmarks of acceptable diving skill. I am far more impressed by divers who can accomplish technical tasks in zero or limited visibility whilst upside down in a cramped environment, even if they don't look especially graceful swimming over a Caribbean reef on another day.
 
Yeah, UC Berkeley Scientific Diving program. It was extremely rigorous, starting in the '60s until the old Diving Safety Officer retired in 2005. They don't do it that way anymore, it's more like a recreational program now.

Among UCB divers, that kind of "grooming" and mentorship lasted for years. Many of us are still dive buddies.

Indeed ... many of my dive buddies are people who took one or more classes with me several years ago ... and now they're often teaching me things ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added December 20th, 2013 at 04:41 AM ----------


I have always wondered why the self-appointed scuba police highlight on trim and bouyancy as the hallmarks of acceptable diving skill. I am far more impressed by divers who can accomplish technical tasks in zero or limited visibility whilst upside down in a cramped environment, even if they don't look especially graceful swimming over a Caribbean reef on another day.

Maybe it's because those self-appointed scuba police dive on those Caribbean reefs and they don't want someone turning them into zero or limited visibility ... probably along the same lines as why most folks wouldn't want a bunch of semis parked in their neighborhood ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Maybe it's because those self-appointed scuba police dive on those Caribbean reefs and they don't want someone turning them into zero or limited visibility ... probably along the same lines as why most folks wouldn't want a bunch of semis parked in their neighborhood ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

To be fair to my ex SEAL buddy, he had diving skills. He just wasn't too alarmed at being vertical under the water, or putting his finger on a rock for stability, and he did suck a tank down fast. But he was a good buddy. I know he had my back. He wasn't a coral cruncher by any means.
 

I have always wondered why the self-appointed scuba police highlight on trim and buoyancy as the hallmarks of acceptable diving skill. I am far more impressed by divers who can accomplish technical tasks in zero or limited visibility whilst upside down in a cramped environment, even if they don't look especially graceful swimming over a Caribbean reef on another day.

I see both as useful skill sets. I never criticize recreational divers because they can’t tie a bowline in black water. I also never criticize SEALs… for reasons of respect and self-preservation. :wink:

I believe good divers are defined by three major criteria. The first is being a confident swimmer. This has nothing to do with speed or style. It is all about endurance. Second is adequate knowledge to understand how to dive safely and enough experience to apply that knowledge. The third is very high resistance to panic, which is largely based on the previous two. Abiding by stupid rules like “never stop breathing” and “you can’t dive below 60'” is NOT understanding.
 
Talk to this dude about buoyancy and trim.

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Then tell him he doesn't know how to dive.

Certification agency? Anyone?
 
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Talk to this dude about buoyancy and trim.

View attachment 173696

Then tell him he doesn't know how to dive.

Certification agency? Anyone?

Unless he has picked up the skills somewhere else, he does not know scuba diving.

Just because two activities take place under water does not mean they are the same activity.
 

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