Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[TSandM]

A comment earlier in this thread reminded me of another accident (and I searched for the information, and couldn't find it). A very well-liked young man dove with a couple of the people from the dive shop where he worked, somewhere in Monterey Bay, and did a very deep dive on air (over 200 feet, if my memory serves me). He did not survive it. There was a lot of speculation and some angry argument about whether narcosis or even oxygen toxicity played a role in his death. One wonders if there was some component of not monitoring the gas supply involved in this dive -- I'd rather believe that they got stupid and didn't turn when they should, than that they had absolutely no clue as to how much gas they needed to do the dive they proposed to do.

 

[lv2dive]

...The problem is that the details of this dive do not indicate that they had even that basic idea of what they were doing. They went to 233 feet, leaving their decompression gas near the entry point (which is common),and at some point the son ran out of air and they had to share air on exit. I have been reading about this incident on several forums, and I don't see any indication of a gear failure causing that problem. Even if there had been such a failure, following the most basic rules of cave gas management, which they should have known, a catastrophic gear failure on the son's part at the worst possible point in the dive should have gotten them to their decompression tanks. Now, they did almost get there, but what would they have found when they did? According to reports, they did not have enough gas in their decompression tanks to come anywhere close to the amount needed for the required decompression after a dive to 233 feet.

So that means there were two complete failures in the most basic knowledge required to do that dive, knowledge they should have picked up easily in whatever informal training they had received.

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL SPECULATION:

To be clear - I don't know that they left decompression gas ANYWHERE... the way I read it, they left stages at the mound. I would not be surprised to hear those stages had, at best, EAN32, and at worst, EAN21. My guess is they went deeper than they had in the past, the gas went faster at that depth than they had planned (because they did NOT have the training to appropriately PLAN THE DIVE) and they simply ran out of gas. Had they gotten back to their stages, they would have still been forced out of the water sooner than their computers allowed, bc they did NOT have the deco gas needed for the dive. They were both young and healthy - there is a possibility one or both may not have gotten bent.

 

[DevonDiver]

The essence of "All the Gear and No Idea"

... everything we have heard says that they have received some sort of training, even if only (at a minimum) reading online discussions. Pictures of them show their gear looking properly set up.

The internet now provides a wealth of resources for diver education; forums, articles, YouTube instructionals etc etc... I think this incident highlights what could easily become a noticeable trend in diver statistics. There's unrestricted access to information... that's a great "enabler" for those who wish to circumvent formal training and instruction.

We see, above, the two victims rigged in the 'full monty' of DIR-spec cave gear. At first appearances they do look competent... they've researched exactly how to look competent.

To a novice diver... looking competent and knowing about something from online reading probably equates to being competent. However, in reality, true competency is about the correct application of knowledge and experience. In caves, wreck and technical diving is about performing that application with a 0% error rate. It takes the input of formal training, with expert input and critique to highlight the difference between appearing competent and being competent.

Recreational divers might become acclimatized to the notion of self-learning. That's practicable in open water, where the situation is forgiving enough to allow you to learn from your mistakes. It isn't... it can never be.... practicable in an environment where mistakes inevitably provide funerals, not lessons learned..

Throwing your credit card at online dive stores...and watching some YouTube videos doesn't make a cave, or wreck, or technical diver. The problem is, those that take that approach remain oblivious to that stark reality until the day comes when they find out what they're missing - inevitably with fatal consequences.

 

[robertarak]

.... However they got it, they apparently had at least a basic idea of what they were doing...

That is worse then no training at all. It makes them think they know what they are doing when they clearly do not. Proper training does two things other then the obvious; It teaches divers the correct way to undertake a particular dive including planning, technique, and execution to avoid incident. Then it teaches how to handle and respond to an incident. When things go bad you will revert to training. They had no training to revert to. They knew enough to get into trouble, not enough get out of trouble.

The rules are simple. Train with a qualified instructor for the type of diving you will be doing. Dive with a qualified team. Practice and stay current and able.

 

[boulderjohn]

A convicted sex-offender who most recently spent two years in prison after being found guilty in a fatal hit-and-run accident? An article about his arrest on that charge said "Spivey, a registered sex offender, has had several run-ins with the law. He has been arrested on a number of charges dating back to February 1995, including burglary, grand theft, DUI and lewd and lascivious molestation."

What that speaks of is a person who has no regard for authority in general. It speaks of someone who believes that rules are for fools, and I suspect he passed that attitude on to his son pretty early on in life. Such people will be quick to find ways around the supposedly unnecessary rules for overhead training.

I have read so many reports about this incident that I have lost track of where I learned what, but apparently the lack of training was a conscious decision based on finances. With limited financial resources, they had to decide how to spend their money--training or equipment. They were apparently quite open about the fact that they could not afford both and so had to make a choice, and that choice was equipment. Most technical divers have to make similar choices throughout their progress in the sport. Most make the opposite choice. They start the training and then pick up the equipment a little at a time as they can afford it. That's how I and everyone I know did it.

So, other than their predisposition to ignore authority, what made them different? Might online forums like this one have had an influence?

They apparently made references to reading online scuba forums, with Cave Divers Forum specifically mentioned. There is a good chance they also read ScubaBoard. If so, their "rules are for fools" attitudes would have gotten plenty of support and helped them decide not to get any training. ScubaBoard has over the years had a number of prominent users who mock people who get formal training, arguing that just diving or just finding a Mentor, someone who is not an instructor, will teach you more about diving than wasting money on formal instruction.

Two of those come to mind in relation to cave diving. They have repeatedly scoffed at the need for training, arguing that untrained divers are no more likely to have accidents in caves than trained divers. They have said that the skills required don't take any special training. One of those who has been very active in promoting the "no need for training" cause participated in this very thread early on, arguing that position before having his posts deleted by a moderator. They get upset at people who talk about the dangers, and they accuse certified cave divers of elitism for their belief that training is necessary.

Were this father and son persuaded by those arguments? I have no idea, but I can't help but wonder.

 

[ianr33]

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL SPECULATION:

To be clear - I don't know that they left decompression gas ANYWHERE... the way I read it, they left stages at the mound. I would not be surprised to hear those stages had, at best, EAN32, and at worst, EAN21. My guess is they went deeper than they had in the past, the gas went faster at that depth than they had planned (because they did NOT have the training to appropriately PLAN THE DIVE) and they simply ran out of gas. Had they gotten back to their stages, they would have still been forced out of the water sooner than their computers allowed, bc they did NOT have the deco gas needed for the dive. They were both young and healthy - there is a possibility one or both may not have gotten bent.

You may well be correct. I'm sure the IUCRR will soon clear it up in any case.

 

[boulderjohn]

Were the "decompression tanks" high O2 or just air?

The article didn't say.

My guess is they went deeper than they had in the past, the gas went faster at that depth than they had planned (because they did NOT have the training to appropriately PLAN THE DIVE) and they simply ran out of gas. Had they gotten back to their stages, they would have still been forced out of the water sooner than their computers allowed, bc they did NOT have the deco gas needed for the dive.

Beginning divers are often shocked at how fast they go through gas when they go deeper than normal. Still, with ANY decent training, it should not have made a difference. One of the first things you learn is to turn your dive at a proper pressure. If you go through your air faster than expected, you turn the dive sooner. That assumes you were TRAINED to monitor your gas usage. In the earliest stages of my cave training, my instructor told me that if I ever missed my turn pressure, the course was over--with no refunds. Believe me, that warning stuck hard throughout my training and beyond. I know how much gas I have before I get remotely close to the turn pressure--surprise is impossible. Of course, if you have not had that training, surprise is very possible.

 

[DevonDiver]

Might online forums like this one have had an influence?

There is a good chance they also read ScubaBoard.

Is there any way to discover if one or both of these divers did have a Scubaboard account? It'd be enlightening to read their contributions and gauge their mindset...

 

[boulderjohn]

Is there any way to discover if one or both of these divers did have a Scubaboard account?

Not that I know of.

 

[ianr33]

If you go through your air faster than expected, you turn the dive sooner. That assumes you were TRAINED to monitor your gas usage.

Turning at thirds on a NDL dive is straightforward. Calculating turn pressure with tons of air deco,not so much. I'm guessing they didn't run any lost gas calculations either.