Ending Dive with 500psi

[Donnah]

When we were in Truk, the boat manager stated that we were responsible for our own profiles and on our own. However, one night I went out on deck and noticed a crew member looking at everyone's computer. Just checking...

We were on a liveaboard in T & C, where we were required to sign out and, on return to the boat, sign in with our depth and time. My husband and I were almost always the deepest and longest. Second day, one of the crew said he wanted to do a dive and could he triple with us. I said sure as long as he didn't mind poking along with us. We had a great dive -- after that he didn't worry about us.

 

[nimoh]

Didn't read all posts, so this may have been suggested, but something I commonly see with husband/wife teams where the wife is much better on gas consumption is for the two to share gas at the start of the dive through the descent, and perhaps a bit more. This will extend the dive for both.

 

[diver 85]

Solution??........buddy breath off his octopus thruout the dive(suck his down---more) & he'll not have 1k psi @ end of dive----& you'll get more BT...............seriously, that's the way I did with our daughter back in the 80's to extend my BT.......

Then you will avoid cranky DMs...too....

 

[decompression]

Even with the Rock Bottom planning, if the boat says get back on the boat with at least 500 psi, then that is not arbitrary. Your gas planning has to account for at least 500 psi in your tank when you exit the water in the worst case scenario. That last 500 belongs to the boat, not you. Their boat, their rules.

This thread isn't about the topic of "is 500 psi enough of a reserve". It is more about the the boat's rules and the verbal lashing from the DM.

Agreed, however, with proper gas planning (rock bottom) the vast majority of dives returning to the entry point with a minimum of 500 PSI won't be an issue. Unless it is required during the dive and then I'm sure the DM won't mind.



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[redacted]

Even with the Rock Bottom planning, if the boat says get back on the boat with at least 500 psi, then that is not arbitrary. Your gas planning has to account for at least 500 psi in your tank when you exit the water in the worst case scenario. That last 500 belongs to the boat, not you. Their boat, their rules.

This thread isn't about the topic of "is 500 psi enough of a reserve". It is more about the the boat's rules and the verbal lashing from the DM.

If that "rule" is established before we enter in a contract (I pay) then I will either abide by it or decline the contract. If that "rule" is added after the contract, like in the dive briefing, then I see it as a request that I am under no contractual obligation to abide by. I always pay by credit card.

 

[Doubler]

The 500 psi "rule" came from the same place the 1/4 turn back valve rule came from, is a dinosaur and should be done away with. A buddy pair plans their dive including depths, turn times and air remaining. Wasn't there just a case similar to this where a buddy team returned to the surface but only one returned to the boat. Did anyone care how much air the returning diver had when boarding the boat? No. There have been a ton of threads discussing the DM responsibility when concerning safety and most opinions come down on the "he is just a tour guide" category. You sign a waiver releasing the crew and shop from any responsibility for any type of mishap or injury including anything caused by gross negligence on their part so just how responsible are they? I think not at all based on the waiver alone, you and your buddy are responsible. Sounds like a young DM with dive god syndrome.

 

[waterpirate]

You can go the contract route, but it is the boats perogative to refuse you service in the future. On a Coast Gaurd regulated vessel you are at the whim of the Capt. Period, that descretion extends to the DM and the crew at the Capt.'s direction.

Bottom line is make sure the charter you are on is in concert with the type of dive you wish to do. If not, you risk the ever popular " Maybe you would be alot happier on that other boat" response to your actions.
Eric

 

[redacted]

You can go the contract route, but it is the boats perogative to refuse you service in the future. On a Coast Gaurd regulated vessel you are at the whim of the Capt. Period, that descretion extends to the DM and the crew at the Capt.'s direction.

Bottom line is make sure the charter you are on is in concert with the type of dive you wish to do. If not, you risk the ever popular " Maybe you would be alot happier on that other boat" response to your actions.
Eric

Another way to look at it is that is a boat that will not see any more $$$ from me (and divers who might listen to me). So, are there more boats then customers or more customers than boats?

 

[TMHeimer]

The 500 psi "rule" came from the same place the 1/4 turn back valve rule came from, is a dinosaur and should be done away with. A buddy pair plans their dive including depths, turn times and air remaining. Wasn't there just a case similar to this where a buddy team returned to the surface but only one returned to the boat. Did anyone care how much air the returning diver had when boarding the boat? No. There have been a ton of threads discussing the DM responsibility when concerning safety and most opinions come down on the "he is just a tour guide" category. You sign a waiver releasing the crew and shop from any responsibility for any type of mishap or injury including anything caused by gross negligence on their part so just how responsible are they? I think not at all based on the waiver alone, you and your buddy are responsible. Sounds like a young DM with dive god syndrome.

That waiver thing is not black and white as I gather. We learned in DM course (PADI's view of course) that a DM can be sued regardless of a signed waiver if he/she doesn't follow accepted normal safe procedures --for the area, boat, weather, dive planning advice given, etc.. This of course can be open to arguing whether it was unsafe or not. As well, I believe the waiver does not at all mean the Captain/crew/DM on a boat are immune from lawsuits. Like the sign in a parking garage saying "not responsible for theft of stuff in car", etc. I believe they can be, as the theft took place on their property--am not sure of this. You can't put a sign in your yard saying if someone enters and gets injured you're not responsible--hey, that thief can sue you if he lands on a spike after scaling the fence. So, one can't be too critical of DM/crews trying to cover theirs.

The 500 rule-- I've heard this on a few boats, but not more than half of the total I've patronized. Maybe that's because most of my trips have been on boats where divers have their own tanks. I wonder how much worry goes into diver safety as opposed to water entering breathed down tanks? I imagine some of both and the 500 is just protocol in some places.

 

[waterpirate]

Another way to look at it is that is a boat that will not see any more $$$ from me (and divers who might listen to me). So, are there more boats then customers or more customers than boats?

There are more dumb asses than boats. The mantra " the customer is allways right " does not apply to dive charters, and alot of other things in life. Bottom line if you can not follow the directions of the crew we see you as a liability. As crew we strive to never have to be interogated by a Coastie or fill out that annoying paperwork detailing what hapened to a dumbass./ The Coasties make OSHA investigators seem like your BFF.
Eric