AOW vs GUE Fundamentals

[LACounty4806]

Guys, guys...unless I'm reading a different thread, ADP never came out of John's mouth, excuse me, keyboard. He was talking about the evolution of AOW from the early LA County Programs thru its inception at NAUI. Not sure I got all that correct. I've read it in several threads. He was NEVER comparing AOW, then or now, with the ADP program. At least that's how I read it (several times). Are you saying that statement is incorrect? Sorry for butting in John.

You're correct. Everyone else was talking about ADP. John didn't know the difference but he kept writing like he was an expert and confusing other people. That's my point. He's using quotes about oranges when people are trying to describe apples. Sloppy.

 

[scubadada]

Again, not unusual for SB, is it? Everyone is an expert on the internet, some more than others

 

[tursiops]

Everyone else was talking about ADP. John didn't know the difference but he kept writing like he was an expert and confusing other people. That's my point. He's using quotes about oranges when people are trying to describe apples. Sloppy.

Really? Everyone? Maybe you haven't actually read the thread? There was NO mention of ADP for 10 pages, until you and scubadada brought it up. The discussion has been about AOW and GUE Fundamentals. Maybe you are confused, but I doubt anyone else is. Of course, now that you've taken the thread off topic, who knows what confusion there might be!

 

[drrich2]

Seems to me the original post was based on the idea that someone with OW wants to advance his training and be allowed on a wider range of dive boat excursions. GUE Fundamentals seemed to be a great way to do the former; an AOW cert. seemed to be the way most people do the latter. So he wondered if he did the former, could he do the wider range of boat trips, or would he have to pick up AOW just for a 'dive trip > 60' license' (practically speaking; I know it isn't literally).

I suppose the topic wandered a little into ways to pursue the original goal. From what I understand, some ways:

1.) AOW with a teacher who adds a lot to the course, or teaches it very well and to unusually high standards.

2.) AOW + further training, such as technical diving pursuits.

3.) AOW + a lot of self-directed practice, or mentored diving.

4.) One of these Tecreational classes.

5.) The ADP program, which is evidently very different from an AOW program. Which raises the question of whether one gets an ADP cert. that will be broadly recognized on dive boats, especially since a lot of diving is done outside the U.S.

6.) The Naui Master Scuba Diver program, which was originally intended to instill instructor level knowledge & skills minus the teaching component, which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned (at least that I've noticed), and it much different from the 'master scuba diver' cert. requirements for PADI & SDI, for example. It's an actual course in and of itself.

For the intermediate (or ambitious beginner) diver looking to progress, how would you guys 'stack up' these options? What additional options did I miss?

Richard.

 

[tomfcrist]

6.) The Naui Master Scuba Diver program, which was originally intended to instill instructor level knowledge & skills minus the teaching component, which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned (at least that I've noticed), and it much different from the 'master scuba diver' cert. requirements for PADI & SDI, for example. It's an actual course in and of itself.

One of the prerequisites for the NAUI Master Diver course is AOW, which I suspect is the reason it hasn't been discussed. It isn't a viable option for the OP at this point in time unless an instructor can be found that will allow a student to challenge the AOW test and do a skill evaluation prior to starting MSD.

 

[LACounty4806]

Really? Everyone? Maybe you haven't actually read the thread? There was NO mention of ADP for 10 pages, until you and scubadada brought it up. The discussion has been about AOW and GUE Fundamentals. Maybe you are confused, but I doubt anyone else is. Of course, now that you've taken the thread off topic, who knows what confusion there might be!

You're right of course. It wasn't everyone. It was just 2 people and a misconception about a program when I jumped in. I just saw that post about the Los Angeles County program and tried to clear up what I saw as a pretty major error in terms of discussing a program that I've worked on. I made a polite post trying to clear it up. I didn't like the reply but tried once again.

Sorry if I "hijacked' your thread.

 

[Aotus]

Man, why does SB get so rough all the time?

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Sword fighting.

 

[scubadada]

Seems to me the original post was based on the idea that someone with OW wants to advance his training and be allowed on a wider range of dive boat excursions. GUE Fundamentals seemed to be a great way to do the former; an AOW cert. seemed to be the way most people do the latter. So he wondered if he did the former, could he do the wider range of boat trips, or would he have to pick up AOW just for a 'dive trip > 60' license' (practically speaking; I know it isn't literally).

I suppose the topic wandered a little into ways to pursue the original goal. From what I understand, some ways:

1.) AOW with a teacher who adds a lot to the course, or teaches it very well and to unusually high standards.

2.) AOW + further training, such as technical diving pursuits.

3.) AOW + a lot of self-directed practice, or mentored diving.

4.) One of these Tecreational classes.

5.) The ADP program, which is evidently very different from an AOW program. Which raises the question of whether one gets an ADP cert. that will be broadly recognized on dive boats, especially since a lot of diving is done outside the U.S.

6.) The Naui Master Scuba Diver program, which was originally intended to instill instructor level knowledge & skills minus the teaching component, which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned (at least that I've noticed), and it much different from the 'master scuba diver' cert. requirements for PADI & SDI, for example. It's an actual course in and of itself.

For the intermediate (or ambitious beginner) diver looking to progress, how would you guys 'stack up' these options? What additional options did I miss?

Richard.

The straightforward PADI path of OW, AOW, selected specialties, and Rescue works just fine if one chooses, or is lucky enough to end up with, good instructors. I was fortunate to have good instructors. From threads like this one, it appears there are many lower quality teachers out there, a shame.

And then, I have been practicing as much as possible for the last ten years

Good diving, Craig

 

[ScubaInChicago]

I would argue that you should take the Fundamentals course and forget AOW (unless you have a very highly recommend instructor available). Part of what you will learn in th Fundamentals course is single tank diving in deeper water is not very smart. It will give you the tools to transition into a double tank setup to do 100' dives for up to 30 minuets. 77.5 cf (single AL80) with 2-4 cf consumed at a depth of 100' doesn't leave much time before needing to turn the dive with enough gas to get you and your buddy up to the surface safely in an emergency.

If you show up to the boat looking the part, your not going to be turned away. Heck, I show my OW card to most charter captains when diving with multiple stages and deco bottles.

Bottom line. Make an informed choice and interview the person who you are considering taking a course with. Get their take on gas calculations (Min Gas, Rock Bottom, 1/2's, 1/3rds, all usable). These are important calculations that should be used on EVERY dive. Will your next instructor be able to cover these bases? Good luck, diving is supposed to be fun, not about arguing over what's best over the internet.