How soon to take AOW after OW?

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I guess I should say that I am totally comfortable with the idea of the 5 dives. I'm not intimiated in any way. I just want to gain as much knowledge as I can from them (even if its minimal). I just think if I had at least a few dives under my belt where I just work on the skills I've already been taught, I'll go in to AOW prepared.

I am going to check out another dive shop today. Its kind of a bummer that I didnt have all the facts before starting in to SCUBA from the beginning. I'm having to figure it out as I go, and its set me a bit back. I found a dive shop with very good reviews thats not too far from me. Not only do they get rave reviews from their training, but they can do tank hydro testing in house along with repairs. Their prices are better than everyone around. If their staff (when I go in today) is as good as people make it out to be, it will probably be my go to place from here on out. And I do have several classes besides the ones already mentioned that I intend to take.
 
It sounds like the LDS is trying to fill a class. The key to when is,,,,,,when you feel comfortable with the OW training. When you can doo all the skills in your sleep with out stress. Master the basic skills and then move on to more advanced skills. For some it may be 10 dives and others maybe 50 dives or a year.
 
You are getting some common advice to just go diving or find good divers to help you rather than take professional instruction. That's what I did with my skiing. I just skied and imitated others who looked like they knew what they were doing. By doing that, especially the part about imitating the skiers who I later realized had very poor technique, I ingrained so many bad habits that I could never fully exorcise them when I finally got real instruction.

I had a similar experience with diving, with experienced divers giving me all sorts of terrible advice when I started. Fortunately, I got better advice before too much of that happened.

The sentiment you see frequently expressed on ScubaBoard can best be summarized as "Just about all divers suck because so many instructors do a bad job of teaching, so you should seek out one of those really sucky divers for fee instruction instead of going with a professioal." It seems to me a better idea would be to be very careful in selecting a high quality instructor from the start.
 
Send me your email. I'll send you the outline to my Advanced Class. My biggest issue with the AOW class as it is usually taught is that it gives an entirely false sense of security to divers. It is also not truly marketed as what it is as Andy said previously.

To be fair it is often the diver that puts the emphasis on the word "advanced' and gets themselves into trouble, but I don't see shops actually discouraging that line of thought. Operations also bear some of the blame for using the AOW card as a "cover your butt" liability issue. If you have an "Advanced" card they'll gladly let you go out on dives that you truly have no business on.

The Advanced card often gives you access to dives that are deeper, may have high current, low vis, or at night. They may require you and your buddy to fend for yourself completely in those conditions. That you did a few "experience" dives with an instructor and are in no way capable of those things is beside the point. You have an "advanced" card so the liability is on you should you get hurt, have a really bad experience, or die.

If they were honest and called it Open Water II or "the stuff you really should have gotten most of in your OW class" they wouldn't sell as many certs. A diver in possession of a card with the word "advanced" on it should have all the skills and knowledge to do those dives safely. That means on the deep dive you should know what your SAC rate is, know how to gas match for different tank sizes in the team, know emergency deco procedures, understand what narcosis is and does. Writing your name backwards or opening a lock is a poor test of narcosis. Seen people actually do it faster. Do an actual dive skill and observe the level of impairment.

I also feel that if you did not get basic rescue skills in your OW class, taking Rescue before AOW is a better route. It will improve your situational awareness, build buddy/team skills, and give you the tools to handle an emergency or, even better, prevent one from happening.

If for any reason a diver does not want to take the rescue class and have not had the rescue skills that SEI requires for the OW Class I will do a workshop at minimal cost to the student before signing them up for advanced. Reason is we are going to build on those skills during the six dives in the class.

A number of AOW courses offer the student a myriad of choices for dives outside of the mandatory deep and UW Navigation. All of the dives in mine are required. Only may be substituted. The core dives are
Advanced Skills Dive
Underwater Navigation
Night/Low Vis
Deep
Search and Recovery
Buddy Skills and Assists

Wreck may be substituted for Search and Recovery but I don't push that option because I feel the S&R teaches some very valuable lessons.
I require ten dives post OW to begin for students I have OW certified. Those I have not may be required to have more, do a couple skills checkout dives in the pool and/or open water with me, and possibly a workshop.

Buoyancy and Trim are addressed on every dive but you should have those down pretty well before starting the class since those are basic, fundamental open water class skills. If you don't you'll not enjoy the Advanced class as much because, again, there is a lot going to be built on those. It's not a rehash of OW skills. It's new knowledge and new skills that are designed to give you the tools to those dives safely and with full knowledge of the risks.

I'm not the only one that teaches a class like this. NW Grateful Diver has a similar program.

I had one student come back and tell me his Intro to Tech class was easier that he did with another instructor before I started teaching tech classes.

It's also not cheap. $425.00 this past season. 600.00 for a private class that includes 6-8 hours of actual classroom plus the time between dives adding to that. 6 Dives over 2 or 3 days. All materials are provided and the student must have their own gear or arrange to have it. I can supply the pony or stage bottle and reg for the advanced skills and deep dives, reels, and back up lights. I also have 100 cu ft plus capacity main tanks for the deep dive since an al80 is not acceptable for a 90-100 ft dive. Students can also use doubles or sidemount for the class.

A cert card at the end is not guaranteed. If I feel the diver needs more time in one area I will tell them and, at my expense, provide that extra day or couple of dives to get them where they need to be.
 
Why do you want to take AOW?

If you wait too long, you may well find you develop all the knowledge and skills on your own.
 
The key to when is,,,,,,when you feel comfortable with the OW training. When you can doo all the skills in your sleep with out stress. Master the basic skills and then move on to more advanced skills. For some it may be 10 dives and others maybe 50 dives or a year.

Ummmm....what you describe is supposed to be the performance standard (definition of mastery) for qualifying as an OW diver.....just saying.

PADI Instructor Manual - General Standards and Procedures - Mastery Learning
"During confined and open water dives, mastery is defined as performing the skill so it meets the stated performance requirements in a reasonably comfortable, fluid, repeatable manner as would be expected of a diver at that certification level."
 
Why do you want to take AOW?

If you wait too long, you may well find you develop all the knowledge and skills on your own.

Mostly because it will be a pre-requisite to getting Rescue Diver. It also opens up my limits from 60 feet to 100.
 
There is something about the previous post by Jim that really stands out.. Let me see if i can get it....

""""""""I feel the S&R teaches some very valuable lessons""""""""

Now the course is moot but the idea of learning valuable lessons seldom happens when you go zero to hero. Just how much do you learn in 2 weeks of doing ow aow and nitrox. More time in the class room than in the water and you have not experienced anything in the water to drive home the things taught in the basic course. I cant tell you how many times tanks have fallen out of the bc's of others. Or you ran low on air and did not notice it. You have to build muscle memory into everything you do to make it natural. Your first time loosing your buddy should not be at 100 ft. Learn your valuable lessons and hone your skills at 30 ft. Don't wish you had done it at 30 meters. Now with a course design like Jims you could do it one after another, but that is the instructor component with Jim, that level of dedication to training through repetition is not a constant in the field.

My wife got OW last year. we have spent a year when opportunities arise to go to a lake and work on skills. I let her make mistakes and she learns through the experience and progresses one dive at a time. You should have seen her the first time she offered and then accepted air with the reg upside down. She does not make that mistake any more. Further more she will not offer it upside down in deep water. She could not use a compass and we worked the most basic issues out so she can proceed with further training. She has learned you cant navigate anything but a circle with out a fixed arm. Things like this you have to experience in the water because it does not happen in a class room.
 
Mostly because it will be a pre-requisite to getting Rescue Diver. It also opens up my limits from 60 feet to 100.

I think you will find that most agencies have a prerequisite of AOW or equivalent. SDI evaluated my logged dives to meet their solo diver cert prerequisites. While I do understand there are ops in the NE that require AOW cards, I have never had the lack of an AOW card limit my diving.

BTW, I did read the padi book and had quite a few dive in the deep, night, and navigation categories.
 
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Ummmm....what you describe is supposed to be the performance standard (definition of mastery) for qualifying as an OW diver.....just saying.
You are right Devon but unfortunately it does not always happen that way.
 
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