How soon to take AOW after OW?

[MXGratefulDiver]

We used to have an instructor here who would teach his students to come back via a different route than they went out ... so they could see where they were going. I believe this was one of his AOW skills ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[admikar]

In reality, AOW can be both... or neither of those things. That depends entirely on the individual instructor. The course is flexible enough to be focused on building fundamentals or building progressive, more advanced, skills. It just requires an equally flexible instructor who can identify and deliver the specific training that the student actually needs.

And what happens when instructors evaluation on student needs and students expectations on AOW course disagrees?

For anyone considering when to conduct AOW training, the answer is simple: decide what you need to achieve and find a motivated instructor with the flexibility to provide exactly that.

Weak link is new divers ability to correctly assess his/her needs. I thought I was OK until someone showed me a video where my buoyancy is off, I fin kick compensated.

 

[DevonDiver]

And what happens when instructors evaluation on student needs and students expectations on AOW course disagrees?

If consultation between student and instructor begins before training starts, then there is ample opportunity for both parties to understand the student's expectations.

Likewise, there is also ample chance for the instructor to make it clear that they will provide critical feedback and remedial training on any issues that present themselves during the course.

Weak link is new divers ability to correctly assess his/her needs.

Divers advancing at any level, not just new divers.

If the student has a goal, then the instructor can help them progress towards that goal.

If the student doesn't have a specific goal from the training, then the instructor can assess their general strengths and weaknesses to deliver an optimal interpretation of the course for the best overall progression in diving comptency.

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

There is nothing advanced about the advanced open water course.

Take the course when you feel comfortable and it suits you.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yesterday I had a 1:1 dry suit student, his first post ow cert. Afterwards, he said, "sign me up for aow". I said no. He first needs to dive a bit more, finalize his kit, possibly take the full peak performance buoyancy course (when done right, I feel it has a lot of value). After some more diving where his trim in the water is looking good, that is when I think he's ready to get real value out of AOW. I like to add things to give my students extra and help their diving. I'm glad that I read these boards as I do pick up things that benefit my students.

 

[DevonDiver]

Why not tailor the AOW to meet his needs and let him sign up now?

You could run PPB as an adventure dive. Run it as the first dive, then build on that progress in each subsequent dive (5 dives of practice on AOW, rather than 2 on PBB).

My AOW courses are cumulative. By that, I mean that as each component is added it is then applied on every subsequent dive. They are not 'stand-alone' modules, as once introduced, the student is expected to continue applying and refining the skills they have learnt - as extra skills are added.

The key factor is that the student progressively takes more responsibility for the diving with each subsequent dive, adding further demands and tools on each dive. Once taught, the skills, protocols and procedures are used on all dives thereafter. It can made be as intensive or gentle as the student can tolerate- thus is beneficial for a wider range of divers.

There's a lot of supplementation in each module. The adventure dive is merely a 'vehicle' for introducing the actual learning that is needed. EANx and Deep are especially important in that respect; as these really can cover gas management and dive planning to a refined level.

An example of cumulative AOW:

Dive #1 - PPB - Student is then to apply buoyancy and trim
Dive #2 - Nav - Student is then to navigates the dives
Dive #3 - EANx - Student learns gas management
Dive #4 - Deep - Student is then to 'more advanced dive planning and proper ascents
Dive #5 - Wreck - Application of all skills on a self-planned and managed dive, in which the student is the 'dive leader'. A real 'check-out' dive, done on a deeper wreck with proper planning, gas management, navigation and refined procedures...all the while demonstrating proper buoyancy and trim.

Normally, I'd suggest an extra PPB dive. That'd mean the first day was ALL about buoyancy and trim... core stuff. They'd have the option to get the PPB specialty card if they desired it... I can do a 2nd dive, or repeat the 1st adventure dive, for PPB as I "might interpret" that the student hasn't met the performance standards to a level of "mastery".

How I'd schedule it:

Day #1
AM - PPB - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)
PM - PPB extra - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)

Day #2
AM - Nav - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)
PM - EANx - 18m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32

Day #3
AM - Deep - 30m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32 + Pony
PM - Wreck - 30m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32 + Pony

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Andy, I wished you trained here in Florida.

As for me, I got AOW after about 1500 dives, and only because some shops "had" to see "the card" to let me dive deeper than 60' even though I could produce logs of my most recent 50 dives to 100 feet and deeper. The course was not bad as a refresher, but if it had been "andy style" it might have been of real use for me.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm so focused on how to improve the OW course I'm currently teaching, but you are exactly right. Gear it towards him and make it cumulative/progressive.

I'd really like for him to get his kit somewhat finalized before continuing though. He's considering a BP/W, so we'll go on a dive where he'll borrow mine and I'll switch to my doubles setup to see how he likes it. Maybe do a full PPB course prior. As I've mentioned before in other threads, I took UW photography from Bob Bailey, and a lot of it was trim and kicks. He did so much for my diving. And that's how I'd conduct PPB and I am more than happy to do more dives in order to help my students achieve mastery.

I do appreciate (and will incorporate) your teaching methodology of cumulative responsibility. And I appreciate the effort you place in writing your posts, as it does take a long time to do.

Though at the shop I teach out of, does offer DPV's for AOW. Those tend to be pretty popular. What people often select is besides the required nav and deep, are dpv, night, and search & recovery. S&R is something I really enjoy as I've had to use it a number of times, plus I move/setup 200 lb concrete anchors for friends and family. I find it to be incredibly useful. So I'll talk to him what he wants to do, and figure out how to make it cumulative/progressive as you suggest.

I'll definitely incorporate gas planning into deep. That to me seems to be a no brainer and should be part of standards for that specialty.

Kosta

Why not tailor the AOW to meet his needs and let him sign up now?

You could run PPB as an adventure dive. Run it as the first dive, then build on that progress in each subsequent dive (5 dives of practice on AOW, rather than 2 on PBB).

My AOW courses are cumulative. By that, I mean that as each component is added it is then applied on every subsequent dive. They are not 'stand-alone' modules, as once introduced, the student is expected to continue applying and refining the skills they have learnt - as extra skills are added.

The key factor is that the student progressively takes more responsibility for the diving with each subsequent dive, adding further demands and tools on each dive. Once taught, the skills, protocols and procedures are used on all dives thereafter. It can made be as intensive or gentle as the student can tolerate- thus is beneficial for a wider range of divers.

There's a lot of supplementation in each module. The adventure dive is merely a 'vehicle' for introducing the actual learning that is needed. EANx and Deep are especially important in that respect; as these really can cover gas management and dive planning to a refined level.

An example of cumulative AOW:

Dive #1 - PPB - Student is then to apply buoyancy and trim
Dive #2 - Nav - Student is then to navigates the dives
Dive #3 - EANx - Student learns gas management
Dive #4 - Deep - Student is then to 'more advanced dive planning and proper ascents
Dive #5 - Wreck - Application of all skills on a self-planned and managed dive, in which the student is the 'dive leader'. A real 'check-out' dive, done on a deeper wreck with proper planning, gas management, navigation and refined procedures...all the while demonstrating proper buoyancy and trim.

Normally, I'd suggest an extra PPB dive. That'd mean the first day was ALL about buoyancy and trim... core stuff. They'd have the option to get the PPB specialty card if they desired it... I can do a 2nd dive, or repeat the 1st adventure dive, for PPB as I "might interpret" that the student hasn't met the performance standards to a level of "mastery".

How I'd schedule it:

Day #1
AM - PPB - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)
PM - PPB extra - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)

Day #2
AM - Nav - shallow water skills (60-90 min depending on student SAC)
PM - EANx - 18m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32

Day #3
AM - Deep - 30m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32 + Pony
PM - Wreck - 30m dive, planned for student SAC, using EANx32 + Pony