Recovery diver dead, two others injured searching for body - North Carolina

[lunula]

I've been following this story as closely as I can, and got more info about the case. Right now, NC Wildlife is investigating the original drowning and sheriff's office investigating the death of Captain Long. Right now they are speaking with the other two divers who survived, as well as doing a complete check of his gear and tank. They've only said they expect it to "be a long investigation."

I can tell you the waters of Lake Norman are really murky, and though I haven't gone diving there, I have gone boating & swimming. It's a very busy lake, which I imagine causes the lake to become even murkier. A couple years ago when I got certified, I asked a couple local divers about going there and both said conditions there change too quickly, it's too busy with boats and people and visibility is never good, so they didn't recommend even trying.

Some new bits of info from The Charlotte Observer:
The two other divers involved in Monday’s search on Lake Norman surfaced on their own and were hospitalized at Lake Norman Regional Medical Center in Mooresville. One was released, and the second was held overnight for observation.

Also...
According to its website, Sherrills Ford-Terrell Fire and Rescue uses a 2007 Scott Air Trailer to fill scuba tanks for divers and air tanks for firefighters. But the department hasn’t released specifics about the diving gear or the nature of Long’s emergency.

His funeral is scheduled for Saturday.

 

[DandyDon]

The two other divers involved in Monday’s search on Lake Norman surfaced on their own and were hospitalized at Lake Norman Regional Medical Center in Mooresville. One was released, and the second was held overnight for observation.

I really suspect the compressor. If it was a Liberty 1, it claims to monitor CO - but when was it calibrated last? Product Detail

 

[flyingron]

You'd think a fire department would be sensitive to these things. These guys use SCBA for fires, too.

It is real murky and goes from shoals to 60+ depths quickly. My boat is about the third out from shore and is already in 30' of water.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

You'd think a fire department would be sensitive to these things. These guys use SCBA for fires, too.

It is real murky and goes from shoals to 60+ depths quickly. My boat is about the third out from shore and is already in 30' of water.

We don't know yet what the issue is - so I will hold off on saying the compressor just yet. That said - a fireman can handle some CO at a fire the SCBA is at sea level or higher. If your point was for diving - well not every department has unlimited funds - in fact most do not. But this will either highlight the need to inspect and keep the the compressor running well or remove the dive team from service. It will be that simple.
I hope it was not the compressor...

 

[Wookie]

We don't know yet what the issue is - so I will hold off on saying the compressor just yet. That said - a fireman can handle some CO at a fire the SCBA is at sea level or higher. If your point was for diving - well not every department has unlimited funds - in fact most do not. But this will either highlight the need to inspect and keep the the compressor running well or remove the dive team from service. It will be that simple.
I hope it was not the compressor...

I hope it wasn't the compressor either.

Not every department has unlimited funds to properly maintain their compressor, but how much does the liability from one accident cost?

 

[rkinder]

In reference to Lake Norman Fatality


First and foremost, there have been many rumors and much speculation; this occurs after each and every accident whether or not they result in a fatality.


Rumors to date have included lack of training, bad air, entanglement, lack of experience, and I am sure several other causes of this accident. The investigation is ongoing I have nothing to add.


Having attended the visitation in North Carolina I saw a true brotherhood at work, Fire, LE, Rescue, EMS. Listing to those around talking about the team and the team members, left me with a feeling that they where very professional in their approach to PSD. One gentleman from another dive team spoke of how this team had improved their equipment, training and experience. As he stated “I just don’t see how this happened” it’s a great team.


I feel it only fair to ask each of us to stop speculation until the investigation is complete. Instead let’s honor Captain Long and the dive team by taking time to reflect on the rumors. Look into our team and members as if from the outside. Look at our equipment and training practices.


Let’s look at the rumors how do we avoid these potential problems;

1. Bad Air, if filling your own bottles ensure that quarterly air quality checks are performed. Inspect and change filters before they time out, check oil levels, drain moisture, smell air prior to placing regulator on bottle.

2. Entanglement, have we planned and trained for this. Do our divers carry a sufficient quantity and proper cutting instruments? Have we practiced with them? Have we practiced providing an emergency air supply to our divers wile entangled? Have we taught and practiced zero visibility hand signals for entanglement and how to indicate to a rescue diver where they should cut?

3. Lack of experience, do we provide challenging PSD training to our teammates? Do we encourage them to dive more that just at team training sessions? Is there loaner equipment for those not having their own equipment? We must encourage time it the water both PSD and recreational, the more comfortable our divers are the better chance they will have when it hits the fan.

4. Training, do we provide relevant PSD training as well as mentoring newer divers? Have we taken time to classify our divers and their capabilities? Just taking an advanced open water course does not certify a diver for PSD missions at 100 feet. I would propose that teams adopt the PSD consensus standards for typing divers as a good place to start.


Bottom line is that now is the time to honor those that have died serving their communities by improving each and every one of our teams. Improve ourselves and accurately evaluate each of our own potentials. Before starting a PSD dive we should ask ourselves and teammates, IS THERE ANY REASON YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE THIS DIVE BEFORE ENTERING THE WATER.? If there is then don’t make the dive.


In closing I would once again ask that each of us stop speculation and hold Captain Longs, family and team and the recovering divers in our prayers.


Sincerely,



Bob Kinder

 

[JohnnyC]

In reference to Lake Norman Fatality


First and foremost, there have been many rumors and much speculation; this occurs after each and every accident whether or not they result in a fatality.


Rumors to date have included lack of training, bad air, entanglement, lack of experience, and I am sure several other causes of this accident. The investigation is ongoing I have nothing to add.


Having attended the visitation in North Carolina I saw a true brotherhood at work, Fire, LE, Rescue, EMS. Listing to those around talking about the team and the team members, left me with a feeling that they where very professional in their approach to PSD. One gentleman from another dive team spoke of how this team had improved their equipment, training and experience. As he stated “I just don’t see how this happened” it’s a great team.


I feel it only fair to ask each of us to stop speculation until the investigation is complete. Instead let’s honor Captain Long and the dive team by taking time to reflect on the rumors. Look into our team and members as if from the outside. Look at our equipment and training practices.


Let’s look at the rumors how do we avoid these potential problems;

1. Bad Air, if filling your own bottles ensure that quarterly air quality checks are performed. Inspect and change filters before they time out, check oil levels, drain moisture, smell air prior to placing regulator on bottle.

2. Entanglement, have we planned and trained for this. Do our divers carry a sufficient quantity and proper cutting instruments? Have we practiced with them? Have we practiced providing an emergency air supply to our divers wile entangled? Have we taught and practiced zero visibility hand signals for entanglement and how to indicate to a rescue diver where they should cut?

3. Lack of experience, do we provide challenging PSD training to our teammates? Do we encourage them to dive more that just at team training sessions? Is there loaner equipment for those not having their own equipment? We must encourage time it the water both PSD and recreational, the more comfortable our divers are the better chance they will have when it hits the fan.

4. Training, do we provide relevant PSD training as well as mentoring newer divers? Have we taken time to classify our divers and their capabilities? Just taking an advanced open water course does not certify a diver for PSD missions at 100 feet. I would propose that teams adopt the PSD consensus standards for typing divers as a good place to start.


Bottom line is that now is the time to honor those that have died serving their communities by improving each and every one of our teams. Improve ourselves and accurately evaluate each of our own potentials. Before starting a PSD dive we should ask ourselves and teammates, IS THERE ANY REASON YOU SHOULD NOT MAKE THIS DIVE BEFORE ENTERING THE WATER.? If there is then don’t make the dive.


In closing I would once again ask that each of us stop speculation and hold Captain Longs, family and team and the recovering divers in our prayers.


Sincerely,



Bob Kinder

I'm glad to hear the things you said about the guys from the visitation. It's always tough when a member of a close-knit community like that passes. And we have a passings forum where condolences can be shared and stories from friends and family can be shared.

That being said, the purpose of this forum is to learn lessons to keep us safe, and that includes speculating about causes. Even if it turns out not to be the case, the information gleaned is often helpful regardless. This forum is built for rumor, speculation, and theory so that we can all become safer divers. That is one of the reasons that family is recommended to stay out of this forum.

 

[rkinder]

Johnny I must disagree with you rumor and speculation have no place in accident analysis. Theory does have a place based on findings from the accident investigation, reports of witnesses and dive partners. I have great respect for discussion of accidents and their ability to educate each and every one of us. That is how we all improve by learning from others. That is how cave fatalities decreased, by accurately studying the accident causes and educating cave divers.

I can only ask that the facts come out and be presented in as clear a manor as possible so that each of us can learn and try to avoid making the same mistake in the future. I am a PSD instructor and prior to yesterday had no contact with this team. I can only report what was heard.

I hope you do not take offence by this reply

thank you

 

[DandyDon]

I feel it only fair to ask each of us to stop speculation until the investigation is complete. Instead let’s honor Captain Long and the dive team by taking time to reflect on the rumors.

Wrong forum. We do that here for good reason. For those who don't like it, we suggest don't read it. If it wasn't allowed here, it just happen elsewhere - perhaps without Moderators, and then be quoted.

I did see the news video on his funeral procession. Very heart warming. Maybe you would like to start a thread in the Passings forum where condolences and such are allowed and encouraged.

1. Bad Air, if filling your own bottles ensure that quarterly air quality checks are performed. Inspect and change filters before they time out, check oil levels, drain moisture, smell air prior to placing regulator on bottle.

The old approach that has failed time & again. You can test your tank personally with a low cost CO tank tester, or take the risk.

 

[Bob DBF]

I can only ask that the facts come out and be presented in as clear a manor as possible so that each of us can learn and try to avoid making the same mistake in the future.

I agree with the sentiment, however the information we have now is most likely, and historically, the only information that will make it to this forum. Witnesses, upon good advice of council, will not post. Any report which may take years to complete belongs to the agency making it, and might be available through the freedom of information act, if you can find it. And any Civil case will end with a confidentiality agreement.

It is an rarity to find any information outside newspaper reports to do what passes for an accident analysis on this forum, so we do with what we have.



Bob