HELP! Pool 5/6 session. CANNOT get neutral. Feeling helpess.

[Jayfarmlaw]

weighting is a huge issue when new.....because it keeps changing. 7mm suit to 3 mm or 1mm skin for tropical dives and you'll need to be several pounds lighter. Diving a High Pressure steel tank in the pool and going to an Aluminum 80 (the standard for rental dive operators) and you will need more weight. Fresh water vs salt water? You need more weight in salt water. Equipment changes especially new wet suits need more weight. Finally. Depth will compress your wet suit and help you go negative....as long as you can get to 20-30 ft to compress the thing. If you have not used a tank down to 500 psi yet, keep in mind that most tanks get "floaty" towards the end and may lead to an unplanned ascent unless you have enough weight already. Almost every change will require some weight adjustment. It truly is a moving target.

We were all there at one point. The more you dive, the more you will control your depth with your breathing and less with your BC. If you can't get an instructor session, just taking your gear to a pool that will allow you to dive and practicing on your own (with your buddy) will help as much as anything.

When you get to your dive destination, I'm sure you will be dealing with instructors/dive masters that deal with new divers on a daily basis. I promise you will get this. Try different fins, (do your fins float in the pool?) unless you are going diving in cold water, try a 3 mm wetsuit or whatever you will be diving on your trip, it sounds like your instructor has moved some weight to and from trim pockets. There is a solution, it's just going to take some time to find it. A combination of equipment and skills and you will get it sorted out.

The good news is you have already mastered the inverted, under reef peak position. Congrats on that!

Safe travels,
Jay

 

[Johanan]

I don't know how much it helps in a wetsuit but try looking forward up instead of looking down.

 

[Johanan]

Try also keeping your hands in front of you, not down. Looks approximately like this:

 

[ajduplessis]

Control your breathing, keep it slow and rhythmic.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi,

I'm a 124 lb, 5'6'' female, with a weight distribution of heavier waist down. I'm on pool session 5/6 , and I have yet to get neutral. ( have attempted this sessions 3,4,5). I have a size XS BCD, I have a steel tank ( I'm not sure what the max capacity is but I know I've had 3200psi in there). I am wearing a 7mm wetsuit.

When I am completely negative and I relax, face down to the bottom of the pool, and start putting air in my bcd, and I keep my legs straight, my feet start floating up and if I let them go I just flip upside down in the pool ( like a 180 and I am looking up).

Hi GXT23 (you named yourself after a mouse?)

You're getting a lot of advice about individual details from people so I'll forego adding much to the mix. I would advise you to read Anthony's post in detail to get an idea of the dynamics of what is going on. In really basic terms there are two things you need to figure out.

1) how much weight do you need
2) where to put it so you remain balanced

Your instructor knows this. The rest is really a matter of getting used to it.

If I could give you any useful advice then it would be this:

- let your instructor help you. It sounds like you're doing that already but I'll say it again. Your instructor will be well aware of the issues you're having and she is probably in a much better position to work out a solution than random people on the internet who haven't seen you in the water. I would caution against second guessing your instructor based on the advice you're getting here.

- Just reading your posts it sounds like you're going to the bottom and then trying to get neutral from laying on the bottom and going up. You might actually find it easier to descend 1/2 way to the bottom during the descent and then stop descending and just hang out while floating. In other words, never get negative. At the very least it's worth a try. Personally, this (pausing during descent) is how I teach neutral buoyancy from the start of the course and I've had very good results from it.

Good luck.

R..

 

[NAM001]

sounds like air moving in the bcd from head to toe. Could she have to large lift bcd. This sounds like symptoms of having a 50# wing when a 25 would do fine and it is allowing the bubble to move head to waist. Wonder what would happen if she had a back inflate bcd. She also sounds like she is rather low on body fat and is more muscle than fat. 7mm is a lot of suit on a small frame. Her symptoms also sound like those of a new dry suit user.

 

[wspalding]

Hi GXT23 (you named yourself after a mouse?)

You're getting a lot of advice about individual details from people so I'll forego adding much to the mix. I would advise you to read Anthony's post in detail to get an idea of the dynamics of what is going on. In really basic terms there are two things you need to figure out.

1) how much weight do you need
2) where to put it so you remain balanced

Your instructor knows this. The rest is really a matter of getting used to it.

If I could give you any useful advice then it would be this:

- let your instructor help you. It sounds like you're doing that already but I'll say it again. Your instructor will be well aware of the issues you're having and she is probably in a much better position to work out a solution than random people on the internet who haven't seen you in the water. I would caution against second guessing your instructor based on the advice you're getting here.

- Just reading your posts it sounds like you're going to the bottom and then trying to get neutral from laying on the bottom and going up. You might actually find it easier to descend 1/2 way to the bottom during the descent and then stop descending and just hang out while floating. In other words, never get negative. At the very least it's worth a try. Personally, this (pausing during descent) is how I teach neutral buoyancy from the start of the course and I've had very good results from it.

Good luck.

R..

I like this advice about establishing neutral bouyancy half-way during the descent. In the pool it really doesn't cause any harm to the environment to lay on the bottom, but on a reef, not establishing neutral buoyancy before reaching the bottom will result in damage to sensitive coral structures. Also, fine-tuning buoyancy during the descent will only require fine adjustments to buoyancy through small puffs of air into the BC versus more major corrective action once at the bottom. This should be able to be practiced in pool sessions.

 

[GXT23]

Thank you so much everyone for your time and advice! I appreciate everyone's words of encouragement!
I don't want to get sour on diving because I think it would be just so amazing to do it, but I don't want to be a danger to myself, my buddies and the very fragile environment that I would be diving in.

NYCNaid,
I tested my boots, and they are negative, which makes me really happy. I also tested my boots which I forgot to mention, and they are very positive even when filled with water. They are 7mm neoprene with thick rubber over the sole and rubber on the front from the toe to where my leg starts. What do you think of that? Thank you!

ScubaDocER,
That was so much helpful information! I am going to definitely check to see how I am weighted as the first thing I do. Thank you!

PfcAJ,
Thank you for your words of encouragement!

Jayfarmlaw,
Jay, I made notes of all of your suggestions. I am glad I mastered a new skill without knowing it. Feeling positive about that Thank you!

Johanan,
I have not tried keeping my hands in front. I will try that! Thank you!

ajduplessis,
) I will continue to work on my breathing. It's easier when things go my way. Thank you!

returner,
I had to look up my username, and I suppose there is a computer mouse with that name. hehe. I was not sophisticated enough to know that And I have no clue how my description name came up as 'garibaldi'
I am not sure how to find Anthony's post? Could you help me with a link?

I have been very cooperative and have very attentively listened and followed all advice from my instructor. She has been very helpful and generous with her time. I will try to address everything with her ( I'm not sure I am going to mention posting about my problems on a blog?! ), and hopefully we can get a resolution. But I know two minds are better than one, and it doesn't hurt to get a different perspective, especially from people who are passionate about scuba.
I have not tried to stop before reaching the bottom. I will try that next time. I am assuming that I most times would not want to stop on the bottom of where I am diving.
Thank you!


KWS,
The information in your reply seems important, however it's perhaps a bit to complicated for me, and I am having a hard time understanding how to apply what you suggested? Thank you!

wspalding,
I will definitely try stopping before getting to the bottom of the pool and seeing if I can get horizontal from there.
Thank you!

 

[NYCNaiad]

NYCNaid,
I tested my boots, and they are negative, which makes me really happy. I also tested my boots which I forgot to mention, and they are very positive even when filled with water. They are 7mm neoprene with thick rubber over the sole and rubber on the front from the toe to where my leg starts. What do you think of that? Thank you!

For your 1st sentence, I think you mean that your fins are negative, not your boots...? For the rest of it, it's not surprising that your boots are positively buoyant. I've never seen a negative boot. I think it's wonderful you want to dive well and I'm glad you'll be working with your instructor. It really just takes time. I'm happy someone can learn from my mistake of using the ankle weights. Far better to work on your body positioning and really learn the skill than take the short-cut I did. You'll get it, I promise and when you do, it's magical! Happy diving.

 

[Neilwood]

@GXT23 I know I had the same situation as you when doing my pool dives. I had to use booties (the same 7mm thickness as you) with the fins in the pool and they were quite positively buoyant and this was exaggerated by the fact that that was the only neoprene I was wearing while in the pool. Without care I could easily find my feet rising. Shifting the tank slightly lower in the pool worked for me (I was using a steel tank which had decent balance but an AL tank might be head heavy which will exaggerate the problem).

Didn't have any issues once I went in to OW because I was now clad head to foot in 7mm neoprene meaning every part of me now had the same buoyancy. Getting good trim was no problem.