Redundancy Required for Decompression Diving?

[Lorenzoid]

I have. There is a lot one can learn outside of formal training.

Sure, and it works for some people. I can't argue with that.

Others, like me--a newbie to tech concepts like staged deco and redundancy--are taking a different approach. I figure that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience out there, already packaged for eager learners just like me in the form of formal training (whether paid or mentored gratis) from any of hundreds of top tech divers who have been doing this for decades, perfecting their methods down to the minute details. I can't imagine I am going to discover something new that none of them have thought of before. Sure, I could make small changes that are probably harmless--probably--but I see no real advantage and only potential disadvantages. In other endeavors in my life I enjoy tinkering with things and potentially adding my own twist as a result of my little "discoveries." Casting doubt on conventional wisdom now and then can be even more fun. But in the case of diving--an activity in which safety is my top concern by far--I have made a conscious decision not to tinker. I try to stay as close to what I was taught as practical in any given situation. As a secondary benefit, I find it more relaxing, as I have no nagging thoughts that something is missing or can be improved upon. There is always room for improvement, but I will leave that to the experts. If I ever reach the ranks of the experts and explorers whose experimentation paves the way for everyone else, then that will be different. Until then, I'm content to be a follower, not a leader.

It works for me. I get it that others take a different approach.

 

[Freewillow]

For what it's worth, I'm currently reading the ART manual for IANTD and not only do they teach redundancy for deco, they teach redundancy for any dive deeper than 60 fsw.

I am interested. Can you give a link to such a text? Thank you.

 

[DevonDiver]

So which is worse?

To do decompression diving without training and using ALL the right equipment and procedures or...
doing deco diving with no redundancy and ALL the right training?

The right training involves having a mindset not to cut corners and to utilise the correct equipment, procedures and protocols.

Training, equipment and attitude are three essential components... all equally necessary.

 

[CuzzA]

I am interested. Can you give a link to such a text? Thank you.

No link, but page 53 in the manual states the following.

 

[lerpy]

I personally used to use a y valve for deep air solo deco dives without incident, but after a while I just didn't feel right about it and switched out the valves and started to drag a pony around. I had assumed that some level of redundancy was required (by standards) to do deco, but was surprised by some comments which seemed to be in conflict with my assumptions.

I only know about technical diving from reading stuff. Mostly the internet.

I will apologize for implying that you should not ask a question, you should, I ask lots in the process of my learning and training.

Where I was going with suggesting training is based on this above, which indicates you do conduct deep air solo deco dives. I firmly believe in asking questions and learning. But it concerns me if someone is asking questions so they can figure out how to conduct dives that they have not done training for.

I was not trying to attempting to put you down and I apologize for that sense of my comment. Just recommending training.

 

[Bennno]

... already packaged for eager learners just like me in the form of formal training (whether paid or mentored gratis) from any of hundreds of top tech divers who have been doing this for decades, perfecting their methods down to the minute details.

There're not many people like that, though. Many instructors also have a specific style and opinios about stuff. For example, in sidemount diving, there are very big differences. If you just stick with what your instructor told you instead of looking at and reading about what other people are up to, I think you're missing out.
With most agencies it's also very easy to become a tec/cave/whatever instructor... so you can't assume somebody is an expert only because he or she is offering formal training.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I will apologize for implying that you should not ask a question, you should, I ask lots in the process of my learning and training.

Where I was going with suggesting training is based on this above, which indicates you do conduct deep air solo deco dives. I firmly believe in asking questions and learning. But it concerns me if someone is asking questions so they can figure out how to conduct dives that they have not done training for.

I was not trying to attempting to put you down and I apologize for that sense of my comment. Just recommending training.

Thanks. I know people are hesitant to provide information or answer questions that they fear will be used or applied out of context or without full understanding or training. On the other hand, as indicated, I have learned a lot from just reading on the internet (and going diving and making my own mistakes helps a lot).

 

[halocline]

So which is worse?

To do decompression diving without training and using ALL the right equipment and procedures or...
doing deco diving with no redundancy and ALL the right training?

You must realize that this statement makes no sense because "all the right training" involves using the right equipment and procedures.

Unless, of course, you knowingly decide to ignore the safety protocols of your training, at which point there's not a lot worth arguing about, is there?

 

[Freewillow]

What opinions are ever shared by yhe whole world?

My opinion is based on having been a military club instructor with BSAC, back in the day when it was accepted/certified as 2* CMAS instructor equivalency.

I can compared that with what I know as an instructor for ANDI, PADI TecRec, SSI... along with diver qualifications from TDI, IART etc..... and having extensively worked /trained /dove alongside representatives/instructors from many other agencies, like GUE, UTD, IANTD, RAID etc etc

But, as I stated, it remains merely my opinion.... but, I believe, a reasonably informed one.

There is some truth in what you are saying about CMAS. However, when one understands that you are a professional instructors - therefore need to make a living - and most CMAS instructors are volunteers, your opinion can be taken with a bit of salt

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You must realize that this statement makes no sense because "all the right training" involves using the right equipment and procedures.

Unless, of course, you knowingly decide to ignore the safety protocols of your training, at which point there's not a lot worth arguing about, is there?

Well it was more of a question than a statement. Who is arguing?