Diving to 200' and Beyond

[Storker]

This discussion is interesting. The diver is using trimix, but most everyone ignores this and goes off talking about deep air diving and then goes off topic talking about coldwater regulators and diving air to 175 feet. Not to mention off topic rantings about single tank diving- (when it is clear she has two tanks) . These topics have NOTHING to do with intent of this thread.

No, the OP descibed 200' dives on a single, no gas specified, and 250-270' dives on trimix, with a single and a pony. It's not unreasonable to assume that the 200' are on air.

Aren't these the same people who will supported baited dives for sharks and shark feeding dives and accept and promote these dives? Don't they also make arguments that this type of "shark diving" is actually safe.. why? because there have not been that many accidents...

I can of course only speak for myself, but since I don't think baiting sharks is partiiclarly smart either, I'd say you're building a pretty large strawman there.

Pay no attention to the topic of the thread.. the moderators allow it to degrade into ANOTHER deep- bounce diving on air with a single tank scenario.

The moderators are first and foremost users of the board. Whether or not a poster in a thread is a mod shouldn't be relevant at all. If you think another thread participant is behaving inappropriately, please use the "Report" button. Your report will be dealt with no matter whether the reported user is a mod or not.

 

[undrwater]

No, the OP descibed 200' dives on a single, no gas specified, and 250-270' dives on trimix, with a single and a pony. It's not unreasonable to assume that the 200' are on air.

No. The OP described all dives as being performed with a second cylinder.

Additionally, I'd say it's not safe to assume much considering we are speculating on third party testimony.

 

[DevonDiver]

In Germany there is no speed limit on the highway, kids are allowed to drink beer at 16, the French dive deeper and in Amsterdam you can buy pot in a store. Some people are still doing ok even though they are being stupid.

There's a Darwinian aspect to it.

Germany has autobahns with no speed limit. That doesn't mean everyone drives at dangerous speeds. Often the opposite occurs.

In Amsterstam, pot is legal in cafes. But it's not a city of stoners.

Allowing kids to drink booze at 16 doesn't lead to youth alcoholism problems. It tends to promote conservative drinking by removing the mystique and novelty at an early age.

In France.. you can dive as deep as you want. That promotes responsibility in setting safe personal limits.

However, in all instances, there will be individuals who fail to set personal limitations when no regulatory limitations are imposed on them. Darwin illustrated the idea.

If an old crone dives beyond prudent limits without adequate risk mitigation and contingency planning.... then it's no more than an alcoholic teenager, a speed-induced autobahn fatality or a drug addict in Holland... just an example of someone that had a sub-normal instinct for self-preservation that reflected in an inability to adequately preserve themselves.

Not being dead isn't any indication of a safe, self-preservative, attitude or approach.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

My thoughts on the OP is that she is a lucky dinosaur and should get with today's programs.

Back in the 1970's and 1980's I too did this type diving, I even took Gwen (my wife) on some of these very deep dives down the walls of Grand Cayman while we lived there. We too were diving PO2's of 1.8 and higher and narced so bad I once saw a purple panther, 50 feet long climbing up the wall....., but we had no idea how stupid we were being, this was EXTREMELY dumb

Fast forward to the new millennium and find helium mixtures, specialized equipment designed for this type diving, and find training for deep diving.

As I look back on my dives made this way I feel LUCKY and thank my guardian angel for not allowing catastrophic failures, debilitating narcosis or bad judgment to have made the outcomes of these dives leaving me as crab food.

Get into the 21st century. Get the gear, get the training, and breathe the helium. There are no valid reasons to dive like a dinosaur.

 

[WarrenZ]

I still think some of the stories she could tell would be worth the cost of a few beers. However She may be an example of someone who has a great run of luck/ability.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I still think some of the stories she could tell would be worth the cost of a few beers. However She may be an example of someone who has a great run of luck/ability.

No doubt!! I'd love to swap stories with her for sure.

 

[AJ]

Not being dead isn't any indication of a safe, self-preservative, attitude or approach.

On the other hand: people die while sticking to the rules regarded as save by the majoirty. I don't do the things this woman does, but I do believe she has found a way to mitigate the risks perceived by others. She must do something right or she would not have survived so many dives this way.

Imo, contrary what many people believe, rules provide in no way a certainty of not dying. They make dying while diving just a litle less probable for most of us. Exceptions will always confirm the rules. And in the end, as far as I'am concerned: it's a personal choice how you want to dive. No one has the right tell you you're stupid because you dive or don't dive in a certain manner. It's all about personal choice.

 

[Storker]

No one has the right tell you you're stupid because you dive or don't dive in a certain manner.

No one has said that the woman is stupid.

What they're saying is that she does something that probably isn't very smart.

 

[DevonDiver]

On the other hand: people die while sticking to the rules regarded as save by the majoirty. I don't do the things this woman does, but I do believe she has found a way to mitigate the risks perceived by others. She must do something right or she would not have survived so many dives this way.

Imo, contrary what many people believe, rules provide in no way a certainty of not dying. They make dying while diving just a litle less probable for most of us. Exceptions will always confirm the rules. And in the end, as far as I'am concerned: it's a personal choice how you want to dive. No one has the right tell you you're stupid because you dive or don't dive in a certain manner. It's all about personal choice.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is talking about 'rules' exactly. Let's substitute that for 'acquired community wisdom'... then it makes more sense.

Too many of these debates get side-tracked by the perception of 'rules'. What we are really talking about is behaviors and conformity to accepted best practices. Shades of grey, not black-and-white...

If someone learned X, Y or Z at a given point in time, then they would have learned the accepted behaviors and best practices relevant at this time. According to the OP, this was the case with the old woman.

However, those behaviors and best practices evolve over time. That's usually because technology and understanding evolve also.

If someone sticks with the behaviors and best practices they learned at the start, they become outdated, stalled-evolution.... and they will be left behind in respect of safety and other factors.

We really don't know this woman's history or practices. We don't know how many 'skin of the teeth' escapes she's had. Or even been oblivious to.. Or whether she even does what she claims to do... or how good she actually is.

I've met more than a few divers who were a 'legend in their own mind' for one reason or another. Often it's because of time involved. Some very long term divers are excellent. Some are atrocious. From my observations, the ones who remain passionate enough about diving to keep abreast of evolution and changes are the ones who can 'walk the walk'...

 

[packrat12]

....., but we had no idea how stupid we were being, this was EXTREMELY dumb
...... As I look back on my dives made this way I feel LUCKY and thank my guardian angel for not allowing catastrophic failures, debilitating narcosis or bad judgment to have made the outcomes of these dives leaving me as crab food......

I am not here to judge the 200' dives nor are my comments on this about the 'correctness' of it. It is to point out that a personal level of accepted safety is an individual thing - as long as the risks are understood by that individual.

What do I mean by this: As a CCR diver, along with you Jim and Pete have accepted a much higher risk by using a CCR. The current rate of death is still around 1 in 70 units sold will kill someone. It is equivalent to BASE jumping or wing suit jumping. This is not about skill either. Many very accomplished divers have died using CCRs including Wes Skiles. What is the difference between us accepting the elevated risk of using a CCR and the OP accepting an elevated risk for their dive? Are we not all setting a personal level of accepted risk that is different from others? How can I, as a CCR diver, judge another's accepted risk level and call them a dinosaur? I think it is hypocritical at the least!