1st doubles dive and my thoughts...

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Rick Inman:
I'm a relatively new doubles diver (about 150 or so doubles dives), but I would say this:

A single doubles dive does not a doubles diver make.

Do ten to twenty dives with your doubles, and then see what you think. You might be surprised.

Okay, this is what everyone seems to be telling me. I'll try to borrow some different sizes...AL80's, HP100, etc. I'm not going to give up. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep trying out different sizes and such and see how it goes. I still think that for basic recreational diving I'm going to like my singles better.

J:
 
The ones you guys use in the US are very, very heavy.
Here we have Faber 12 liters tanks - each one weights aroung 11 - 12 kilos which is way less that yours.
But still with regulators and manifols plus v-weight it's not easy to move.....for me the most difficult is putting them on. Once I have them on my shoulders and I managed to get up I slightly bend forward and then I can walk with them (it reminds me the times when I was young and doing a lot of backpack travelling all aroung the world :D)
Rick also gave you a good advise - do more than one dive and you will first get used to them, second discover how good it is to have them.
Mania
 
JKSteger:
Okay, this is what everyone seems to be telling me. I'll try to borrow some different sizes...AL80's, HP100, etc.
J:

I use Al 80 doubles for all my local diving,a lot cheaper and lighter than steel doubles.When I go to Cave Country I dive 104's and those things are HEAVY.I find Al 80's are light enough to use for any dive but I will only use 104's if I really need them.

If you are diving doubles regularly a deco course is a great idea. I prefer to do one long dive with a bit of deco rather than 2 shorter dives.Saves lots of messing about getting in and out of the water.
 
This may be a bit long, but bear with me.

After 28 years of diving, every time I get asked about doubles I ask back "what do you want to do?" Doubles let you do two things that a single can't- stay longer at shallower depths and go deeper. Both of these bring on DECO problems very quickly. If you are not prepared for DECO, then stay with the singles and NDL diving. If you want some extra gas, a small 20/30/40 bottles as a pony or stage work well.

Now what do you do with the extra gas - most divers will use the gas for exploration of some type be it wrecks, caves, reefs, or photos. At this point the diving has become a tool that lets you do that other thing.

For anyone who wants to go further and get into doubles. I always recomend starting with the old standard aluminum 80's. Why?

Less cost - for your first set of doubles picking up 2 80's used can be done for less then $160 (sometimes much less say $50 each), add a manifold (new 200/used 100) bands (new 65-100/used 50). Total cost 300-350. Or a little over what you might pay for a single steel tank. Also, as you travel around the world you will most likely only find aluminum 80's. So if you plan to travel, get used to using them.

Weight - I think you can figure this part out. Steels on land suck and for boats, it is not getting off that you worry about (gravity will see to that) it is getting back on. A fully riged set of 120's will be a ***** to control on a marginal day and bucking ladder.

Now go diving - a lot.

Is this what you realy want to do? Do you want to put the time and money into it? Will you get bored in 2 years? The sad fact of it is that many, if not most, of the people who post on this board will drop out of the sport in 3 years or less.

OK, if you made the jump to deep/long diving and need more gas then the 80's. Break up the set, the 80's are now called stage bottles, and get the steel tanks you need to do that thing you want to do. The manifold can be reused and maybe the bands.

Now you have a large set of steel tanks, 2 80 stages, and most likely a 20-40 foot small bottle. You now have the tanks to jump 200-250+ feet or go a long way back into a cave- if you want to.

Many will question the 80's because of trim, but for a beginner (and for all your sets) do the following and trim the tanks.

1) Take a filled set of tanks into the pool and weigh them in the water - use a 0-20 pound fishing scale. See how negative the tanks are and how they float in the water. Does the bottom of the tanks float up or drop down when you hold the manifold lightly.

2) Now dress the tanks, put on the regs, BC, back plate, canister light and anything else you may have on the rig (lift bags, john lines, knifes, etc.) make sure all the air is out of the BC and everything else and reweight. How heavy/light are they now and how do they float?

3) Now dump all your air out to about 300 PSI. What do they weigh now and how do they float. Most 80's doubles will be just about neutral but have a large amount of lift at the bottom. They will lay on the bottom on the manifold streight up and down. At this point take some small weights and place them on the tanks untill they trim out level. For 80's it should take about 3 or 4 pounds. These weights can now be mounted between the tanks with long zip ties. When they are all trimed out, how much are they negitive/positive? 80's shoould be about 4 pounds negative.

You now will know how your rig changes with air consumption. You will also know how much weight needs to be added/subtracted from your weight belt to ajust for the tank swing at the end of the dive.

4) Now put on your wet/dry suit and jump in the pool and weigh your self till you are neutral.

At this point you know how much weight you need to add for your suit and how much you need to add/drop for the tanks and should be able to calculate the total required to be neutral with 300 PSI in the tanks with no air in the BC.

In the above, if the tanks are 4 pounds negative and you need 25 pounds to sink your wet suit, the total weight needed to be neutral and trimed out at the end of the dive should be 21 pounds.

Now go diving, - A lot. Play with your rig, adjust the BC/back plate and compensation weights till you get what works for you There is no substitute for experiance.

Finaly have fun.

Pete Johnson
 
JKSteger,

I applaud your decision, and your recognition that it may not be necessary for you to go to doubles at this point in your diving life. Good for you. I have lately seen too many people go to doubles simply because 'everyone else is doing it', or because 'I'm too lazy to switch tanks between dives'.

Gilldiver has said some good points. Why do you want to go to doubles? That's the really big question.

I didn't switch to doubles until I decided I wanted to take up cave diving, 200 dives into my dive life. I dive a set of HP steel 100's, which trim out nicely and are not too heavy.

FWIW, your knees and back will thank you for staying away from doubles :wink:
 
Rick Inman:
I'm a relatively new doubles diver (about 150 or so doubles dives), but I would say this:

A single doubles dive does not a doubles diver make.

Do ten to twenty dives with your doubles, and then see what you think. You might be surprised.

Yeah - about dive 20 I started really diggin the doubles. I liked the initial dive few dives in them... a trecherous current, etc., on dive 3 with entanglement hazards.

FTR - I've been using a pair of steel 72's when I dive doubles.

Some situations have been more 'work' with them and i really gained nothing by having the tanks there. The extra work to stay trim in current or hang on with the extra drag really only created a higher sac rate that nullified the benefits. Conversely, when doing clean ups, dives past 60 but above 130, or extended time on calm medium to shallow dives (reefs in the keys for instance), the double 72 pack gives me a LOT more gas to work with and in once case was also a huge buffer for safety for a buddy who went low fast working hard in a current.

Another benefit I've noticed is that the bigger steel cans dont sit right on me. They are to long or something. I don't feel balanced with them on either in or out of water. I've seen the new steel 120's that are about the size of an AL80 and thats piqued my interest some... I'd like to try one before I buy one and if they balance out nice I'd use it, if anyting for the weight saving factor with the benefit of bit more capacity.

The doubled 72's give me a solid balanced set of gas cans to work with. They aren't so big as to be some giant beastie behind me, in fact, they are slightly smaller in width than my shoulders are wide. Their length is a little smaller than my torso is long. This means they don't hit my head or my butt/back of thighs.

I guess I'm echoing Ricks statement here and adding a bit of my own thoughts saying to not pass judgement on a setup based on trying how one persons rig was set up. They are all a little different, ya know. :)
 
See if you can borrow a set of steel 72s.

They are much lighter than AL80s in air and about 6 pounds heavier each in water, so take 12 pounds of lead off, making you something on the order of 20 pounds lighter on the beach.

I am 6-1 and they disappear behind me in the water.
 
ianr33:
I use Al 80 doubles for all my local diving,a lot cheaper and lighter than steel doubles.When I go to Cave Country I dive 104's and those things are HEAVY.I find Al 80's are light enough to use for any dive but I will only use 104's if I really need them.

If you are diving doubles regularly a deco course is a great idea. I prefer to do one long dive with a bit of deco rather than 2 shorter dives.Saves lots of messing about getting in and out of the water.

Same as me.
Set one: Alu 80's on a transpac w/ intergrated weights and 55 lb wing regs are MK10's R190
Set two: Lp 140's on a Transplate and 100 lb wing regs are MK17/ R190/G200
The only difference is that I"m doing more wrecks than caves these days.
 
TSandM:
I dunno, I think I have about thirty or forty doubles dives now, split between the 72s and the 85s.

I agree with you. They are HEAVY, and hard to move around on land. They are big and stable and make certain things (like shallow stops) MUCH easier in the water. There's also the convenience of getting two or three dives out of a set before they have to go back to the shop for a fill.

But the main reason I'm diving my doubles all the time is that I'm preparing for cave training. Having my buoyancy fine-tuned in double tanks is a must for cave, but so is being able to schlep them around on land, and manage not-so-easy entries and exits.
Oh you'll get in easily alright.... 'walking out' after a long dive in high flow is another story...:D

But I am willing to bet that you will be in bigger tanks soon after you have done your cave training.... you will simply want to have more gas and you can only carry that many stages......

I have doubles 100's, 80's, 108' (2 sets). They are all heavy to schlep around, crawl out of openings, up/down stairs. It is all part of the game.
 
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