500 psi for two divers?

[boulderjohn]

So there are a lot of things that come out of the tech diving community that are totally appropriate for recreational diving (e.g. BP/W, shears instead of BFKs, SMBs, bungeed octo, primary donation, long hose, etc...) but lots of people just freeze up and say "I'm not interested in tech diving" and reject them out of hand.

I have a draft article that I have been hanging on to for a while. It is about scuba's "middle path." The idea is that the recreational world of scuba and the technical world of scuba developed some different equipment and methodologies as they went their separate ways. In "the middle path," the world of recreational world is learning that some of the equipment and skills that were developed in the technical world because they are a necessity there can be adapted in the recreational world. It is not because they are a necessity for recreational diving, but because they provide some benefits, however marginal some of those benefits might be.

 

[doctormike]

I have a draft article that I have been hanging on to for a while.

Looking forward to reading it!

 

[EFX]

Octo on a bungee necklace, donate the primary. Works SO well. Single tank, short hose, no problem. Not just a "tech" thing.

I've been using an air2 since day 1 so it's virtually impossible to get that alternate trapped somewhere. All the agencies should switch to the above system and get their new divers used to not having a reg in their mouth when donating. Even if the "octo-in-the triangle" is blinking bright neon colors and OOA diver may still yank the reg out of your mouth. Then what? Do the bungee or integrateds. Stop the fumbling and live.

 

[tbone1004]

EFX, the you never donate without a reg in your mouth, even with long hose. Pass and slide is one motion and you are breathing off of your backup before you let go of the primary. It is a safety protocol to make sure that you are prepared to buddy breathe because if you let go of your primary and your secondary isn't functioning, the last thing you need is for the other diver to have full control of that primary where you can't take it back if you have to.

 

[doctormike]

EFX, the you never donate without a reg in your mouth, even with long hose.

I was taught the reverse (for long hose donation) - instantly deploy that primary and get the injured diver breathing (since he or she is the one who has been without air for the longest). That should shut down the panic situation. Then go to backup second stage - you should be OK for even a minute or so without a reg while you are getting this sorted out.

I understand that some people are reluctant to do this because of fear of fighting with a panicked diver for the only working octo, and maybe it's a "tech" thing where you expect your buddy to be reasonable once he or she gets a breath of gas. But that's how I was taught.

 

[DukeAMO]

In my rescue class, we were taught (by the instructor, a very experienced tech diver) that people in a state of panic or high anxiety will almost always grab the primary out of your mouth anyway, so you might as well be prepared for that. You shouldn't try to fight them off, just let them have it and go for your own backup second stage. We did our OOA drills that way.

We also experienced how difficult it is to ascend properly with a short hose on the donated (primary) regulator. In a standard recreational setup, that hose is pretty short. The OOA diver can't even look left and right while using it. You can try to get them to switch to the other second stage, but if they're freaked out, they're going to say "no".

Next time I mess with my gear, probably next spring, I'm going to the long hose primary / bungeed octo for these reasons.

 

[fire_diver]

EFX, the you never donate without a reg in your mouth, even with long hose.

This is the scuba equivalent of training wheels. In the real world you are likely to blind-sided and attacked for the reg in your mouth. This is a reality you should be training for so that have you reg ripped out, immediately after exhaling, you can still calmly transition to you own back-up reg.

 

[EFX]

EFX, the you never donate without a reg in your mouth, even with long hose. Pass and slide is one motion and you are breathing off of your backup before you let go of the primary. It is a safety protocol to make sure that you are prepared to buddy breathe because if you let go of your primary and your secondary isn't functioning, the last thing you need is for the other diver to have full control of that primary where you can't take it back if you have to.

Yes. In a controlled situation. However well practiced you are in whatever method you're using there will always be an instant where you don't have a reg in your mouth (my point). Your scenario only works for seasoned experienced divers who need the air. Most vacation and probably some not-very comfortable divers are going to rip the reg out of your mouth and you will probably not see it coming. Therefore, you better get used to a longer interval without your reg as in doctormikes's method.

 

[tbone1004]

fair enough, but that isn't donating the primary, that's having it stolen I've had my reg stolen on multiple occasions and it is irritating as hell, but it's just irritating. I actually was using a shop set of regs while I was working in the keys and someone hadn't tightened the mouthpiece zip tie all the way and the second stage was kicked out of my mouth by a student with the mouthpiece left behind. That was an interesting inhale followed by a quizzical look on my face. Ended up just retrieving the primary and putting it back in instead of switching, but the habit for proper OOA donation should still be pass and slide, you usually have a few feet of warning before someone steals the reg unless they come up from beside you.

 

[EFX]

So there are a lot of things that come out of the tech diving community that are totally appropriate for recreational diving (e.g. BP/W, shears instead of BFKs, SMBs, bungeed octo, primary donation, long hose, etc...)

Next time I mess with my gear, probably next spring, I'm going to the long hose primary / bungeed octo for these reasons.

Since I use an integrated I don't need the bungeed second stage. I'm also thinking of switching to a 5 ft. hose which is easier to store vs. the 7 footer. I think wrapping the 7 footer around the head (DIR) negates any advantages for the new diver. If you need air and he's unwrapping and gets it stuck you are SOL. Primary donation? Yes, for reasons already stated. In regards to other tech solutions I wear a 5 inch knife on my waist strap where I can reach it with both hands. Get rid of those samarai swords on your calf. If your leg gets tangled are you going to reach it? Shears? Overkill unless diving in areas prone for fishing line and other entaglements. SMB? Definitely for open water especially on boat dives. BP/W? Maybe. If it comes with quick release clips (non-DIR) then yes. Include ditchable weight pockets with it. For a jacket the back-inflate with integrated weight pockets is best. My 2 cents.