500 psi for two divers?

[Storker]

Now I try to pre-dive brief that I will be donating my primary if needed.

Um, shouldn't that be SOP in any pre-dive buddy check/briefing, like location of weighting and how to dump it? Even when I was a fairly unexperienced OW diver, if I buddied up with someone using a long hose configuration, they always made sure to point out what reg they would be donating in an OOA situation. Now, I won't claim that I'd be able to remember that tidbit of information if fit hit the shan at that level of experience, but I'm quite sure that all of my long hose-equipped buddies made sure to at least point out the fact before we splashed.

These days, now that I'm using a long hose/bungeed backup configuration myself, I make sure to tell my instabuddy that I'll be donating my primary, and to make sure I know the location of his/her secondary and how it's fastened to his/her BCD (clip, hose doubled and stuffed throuh a D-ring, or something else)

 

[DukeAMO]

We teach primary donation from day 1, our divers don't know any different. They currently have primary hoses that are 40" so they bow out a bit from the first stage, but it's at least in control and isn't wider than the divers shoulders anyway. I prefer 44" with 90* adapter for open water diving, if I'm in backmount overhead then 7' it is, but I also use Poseidons so if I ahve to swim next to someone, they can just flip the reg over and it's a non-issue, but with the 90* adapter it isn't that difficult to swim side-by-side with a 44" hose, the hoses aren't bent too much, and you usually don't have to do a whole lot of swimming to begin with.

Can you post pictures?

 

[tbone1004]

[video=youtube;BfY39J3iFv4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfY39J3iFv4&feature=youtu.be[/video]

This is a really old video, but it's the same setup as it is now.

Here is one from the summer session students at 4 weeks into the 5 week semester instead of the usual 10 weeks in before going to OW. This is OOA drill in 3 ft of water, halcyon backplates with HOG wings, Apeks AT regs set up for single tank recreational. Suunto 2 gauge console crossed over to divers right shoulder for visibility without removing the console and to keep it from dragging. The hose lengths are standard OW hose lengths unfortunately, but the primary and secondary have been swapped so the primary is the "long hose" * I think it's 40 inches on the primary and 28 on the secondary*. The regs are set up with consoles and the standard hose lengths so students will be used to what comes on rental gear. Crossing the console over to the right shoulder is actually very useful if you are using rental gear or are doing a bunch of dives above 40ft and don't want to deal with a computer.

As you can see, it is possible to swim side by side, though it is a bit cozy. These are not certified divers, and have only been in the pool for 3 of those 4 weeks on scuba. First week is all swimming and skin diving skills. At just over 1:00 you can see the divers break contact and can see the hose configurations fairly well.

[video=youtube;tOs9FkUw65U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOs9FkUw65U&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[doctormike]

Shears are less of a multi-tool than what a BFK is.

I'd like to challenge you to spear a flounder, kill off an anglerfish or pry scallops off the rocks with your shears

OK, that makes sense!

 

[decompression]

For experienced divers, yes. For newbie vs. newbie, probably no.



The situation for noobs. I think you can transition basic divers into a long hose but how
do you do it and when do you do it (think about it from the agencies POV)?

The agency I teach for trains 5/7' hose donation from day one of OW, no issues. When divers take my essentials course (transitions from their way to DIR) they have no issues. I've yet to see any training on how to use a integrated second. I find way too many drawbacks to make on viable.

From diving doubles, you know that an S drill takes care of almost deployment entanglements. Now if it comes to a grab vs donate situation, which I've yet to see in any of about 500 deco dives, a solid pull is enough to get the reg to your mouth.

No. I never use the BC hose for buoyancy control. I use my dump valves. One on the shoulder. One on the bottom rear. That's another issue. Stop buying BC's without dump valves and if you already have dump valves start using them exclusively.

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---------- Post added August 25th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ----------

EFX, further, the fact that you use your right hand on your pull dump, your left hand is holding into the OOA diver makes it tough to monitor your computer and guages.


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[flots am]

This is the scuba equivalent of training wheels. In the real world you are likely to blind-sided and attacked for the reg in your mouth. This is a reality you should be training for so that have you reg ripped out, immediately after exhaling, you can still calmly transition to you own back-up reg.

I always have three. An OOA diver only has one mouth, so that leaves me two to pick from.

"Take what you want. I'm happy with that's left."

flots.

 

[EFX]

The agency I teach for trains 5/7' hose donation from day one of OW, no issues. When divers take my essentials course (transitions from their way to DIR) they have no issues. I've yet to see any training on how to use a integrated second. I find way too many drawbacks to make on viable.

I was thinking of PADI and SSI. To my knowledge neither recommends 5 or 7 foot hoses for starting OW divers. However, I think with SSI the standard practice even with an octo is to donate your primary and switch to the octo. Instructors can "dive" in here if I'm wrong. The reason is there is one teaching standard regardless of whether the student has an octo or integrated. This is the practice at my dive shop.

EFX, further, the fact that you use your right hand on your pull dump, your left hand is holding into the OOA diver makes it tough to monitor your computer and guages.

I do hold on to the OOA diver with one hand but can switch hands quickly when needed. I wear my computer on my wrist and it is tilted toward me so I can see it by flexing my elbow slightly. I don't need to keep my hand on the dump valve continuously but only to give a short burst when needed. My SPG is on a console and clipped to my right chest D ring so I just need to lower my head to read it. My kit is single tank with a ScubaPro Nighthawk which has an integrated 2nd stage.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was thinking of PADI and SSI. To my knowledge neither recommends 5 or 7 foot hoses for starting OW divers.

PADI does not mention hose length. It does not recommend any specific setup for alternate air systems. If an instructor wishes to teach OW students with a long hose, it is perfectly permissible. Instructors may also teach them in sidemount configuration, which brings in whole new sets of protocol differences.

In the PADI OW class materials, it does describe the traditional octo setup, but it is not required for them to use that in the class. When I teach, I teach the traditional setup, because that is what my students are most likely to encounter, but I show and explain both the integrated alternate and the bungeed alternate so they can know there are other ways of doing it.

This past year I certified two divers using what was available for them to rent--the complete traditional setup. They came to me shortly after that to do their AOW in a different location with different rental gear available. We did that in BP/Ws with 7 foot hoses and bungeed alternates. They had no trouble.

 

[DaleC]

I think the key factor from tech diving is not the configuration itself but the relationship a diver has with it. Tech divers know their lives depend on it. If rec divers took the time to secure their octo in the right place, and ensure it's proper function, the triangle would work ok. Having said that, I use a longhose bungee'd B/U myself.

It's also really easy to tangle/trap a longhose. Just connect the drysuit whip over it. Of course, this would be caught with a proper pre dive check but so to would a trapped traditional octo.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Hi ,

the situation is ... two divers, max of 18 m, one diver has a problem with regulator or no air left, etc . They share one tank to surface. if the other has diver s tank is 500 psi, with slow , controlled breathing , is that enough to do safety stop and ascend for both of them?

i just cant figure out how long 500 psi would last and i think is useful to know in case i get to that situation.

thanks !

as for the no air, never should happen. bad regulator, what happen to your alternate? it's not just for your buddy!