500 psi for two divers?

[doctormike]

I think wrapping the 7 footer around the head (DIR) negates any advantages for the new diver. If you need air and he's unwrapping and gets it stuck you are SOL.

Try it, you might be surprised how easy it is. I dive the 7 foot hose (looped around a reel or other item on my right hip), up and around the back my neck. If you were very short, a 5 foot hose might be OK for the same routing. It's rigged that way because you really can grab it and donate it in an instant, just by ducking your head. No unwrapping necessary.

In regards to other tech solutions I wear a 5 inch knife on my waist strap where I can reach it with both hands. ... Shears? Overkill unless diving in areas prone for fishing line and other entaglements.

Uh, I'm a bit afraid to ask why you are carrying a knife, if it's not primarily for entanglements.

Also, I don't understand why a $5 pair of shears (which are very handy topside as well) are overkill. I carry a set, and have an EZ-cut on my computer wrist strap.

 

[EFX]

Keep in mind the context of the most recent posts: bungee 2nd vs. octo in regards to new divers. I dive with a 7 footer on doubles and find it no big deal. My buddy and I practice swimming OOA assists with it. For new divers getting trained on it I think is a bit much. You're talking about donating but think about a newbie grabbing it. I carry the knife to cut myself free of entanglements. Can you saw with shears? I can with my knife. Where I dive entanglements are rare and I don't want to dive with more equipment than I need. Can you reach the shears with either hand?

 

[decompression]

EFX, it is very difficult to tangle a 7' hose, maybe if both divers are vertical (for shame!). Also, do you find it difficult to exhaust air from your Air2 while breathing from it while controlling another diver?


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[DukeAMO]

Is a long-hose primary really more difficult to deal with than a backup attached near your waist that's constantly falling out? (By constantly, I mean it's at least likely to fall out once per dive, if you're doing a boat dive or a shore dive in surf.) I think they're equal in the "hassle" sense. With either configuration, you really should check your hose routing right after you get underwater. I actually don't understand why basic OW doesn't include another buddy check just after you get underwater, to check for things dangling or bubbles where they shouldn't be.

Plus the long hose configuration doesn't leave you with the octo hose sticking out to the side, which can get caught on things during the dive (another hassle). And then if the octo does get pulled out of its holder during the dive, it's going to bump on things, get clogged and not work, etc. Bad deal. But you can't make the octo hose short because then you're back to the problem with sharing a short hose with a buddy; you can't maneuver.

Getting your regulator ripped out is more stressful than calmly handing off your secondary, but because that's what's going to happen, we should train for it. Once you do it a few times it's really not a big deal.

I don't think it would be more difficult to teach students to donate their primary from the beginning, if you have the backup on a necklace. For newbies, just let them switch to the backup before handing off the primary, instead of grabbing the primary out of their mouth without warning.

Maybe the real problem is sharing a mouthpiece in class.

 

[doctormike]

Keep in mind the context of the most recent posts: bungee 2nd vs. octo in regards to new divers. I dive with a 7 footer on doubles and find it no big deal. My buddy and I practice swimming OOA assists with it. For new divers getting trained on it I think is a bit much.

Yeah, you may be right, but I think that primary donation, bungeed octo is something that even the newest divers can learn from the get go. I was just replying to your own concerns about "unwrapping" the 7 foot hose, which suggested to me that you might not have tried it.

I carry the knife to cut myself free of entanglements. Can you saw with shears? I can with my knife. Where I dive entanglements are rare and I don't want to dive with more equipment than I need. Can you reach the shears with either hand?

Yup, can reach the shears with either hand, on my waist webbing.

What do you mean, saw? What are you sawing? Unless you are talking about a knife with a saw blade cutting through something like a wooden dowel, I can't think of anything that you could cut with a knife that couldn't be cut quicker, more easily and more safely with trauma shears. Even good for taking the spines off lionfish (although if you are a spear hunter, then I guess you would need a knife to stab with).

Monofilament, wire cables, sheet metal, all types of marine line, etc... shears work fine. Putting a lot of pressure on a sharp knife to cut something is a good way to find out where you go to get a tetanus shot in Cozumel (in my experience!).

 

[Storker]

it is very difficult to tangle a 7' hose

If you don't dive caves, you really don't need a 7"/210cm long hose; a 150cm (5") hose works pretty well, too. Both I and quite a few of my clubmates use a bungeed backup and a 150cm 'long' hose. You don't have to loop a 150cm/5" hose below a canister or stuff it inside your waistband to keep it from flopping.

 

[EFX]

EFX, it is very difficult to tangle a 7' hose

For experienced divers, yes. For newbie vs. newbie, probably no.

maybe if both divers are vertical (for shame!).

The situation for noobs. I think you can transition basic divers into a long hose but how do you do it and when do you do it (think about it from the agencies POV)?

Also, do you find it difficult to exhaust air from your Air2 while breathing from it while controlling another diver?

No. I never use the BC hose for buoyancy control. I use my dump valves. One on the shoulder. One on the bottom rear. That's another issue. Stop buying BC's without dump valves and if you already have dump valves start using them exclusively.

 

[Storker]

I'm a bit afraid to ask why you are carrying a knife, if it's not primarily for entanglements.

Shears are less of a multi-tool than what a BFK is.

I'd like to challenge you to spear a flounder, kill off an anglerfish or pry scallops off the rocks with your shears

 

[gopbroek]

Since going over to an Octo inflator I have had several LOA (no quite full OOA) sharing situations and when I hand over my primary it causes confusion. The other diver is instinctively looking for the OCT and initially have refused my primary until I latch on to my Octo inflator. Now I try to pre-dive brief that I will be donating my primary if needed. The other problem with this style configuration is a short primary hose, when buddying up it can get kind of intimate. As to gas usage I had a friend come up from depth while Lion fishing LOA and we buddied up at about 60’. I pulled up my dive log and we had 570 at buddy up and then rose up and did 11 minutes of DECO around 10-15’, after surfacing we still had 229 in my bottle.

 

[tbone1004]

most of our wings don't have a top dump aside from the inflator, so that was that question. When you are controlling a panicky diver you have to go vertical and that means top dump only.

We teach primary donation from day 1, our divers don't know any different. They currently have primary hoses that are 40" so they bow out a bit from the first stage, but it's at least in control and isn't wider than the divers shoulders anyway. I prefer 44" with 90* adapter for open water diving, if I'm in backmount overhead then 7' it is, but I also use Poseidons so if I ahve to swim next to someone, they can just flip the reg over and it's a non-issue, but with the 90* adapter it isn't that difficult to swim side-by-side with a 44" hose, the hoses aren't bent too much, and you usually don't have to do a whole lot of swimming to begin with.