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"Allowed" to dive
- Thread starter meagicano
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That makes two of us
Very roughly, CMAS 1* ≈ PADI OW, CMAS 2* ≈ PADI AOW + Rescue, CMAS 3* ≈ PADI DM. At least in my part of the world...
AfterDark
Contributor
I've been following this thread for a while reading the whole thing. It has made me really appreciate the time and place I started diving. With all the structure and restrictions these days in some countries I doubt that I'd even start diving! Structure and restrictions for leisure time activities has never appealed to me. I didn't do team sports for the same reasons.
And there is no table training for the N1 FFESSM.
MN90 tables are taught to the N2 trainees.
Basically, a N1 FFESSM can dive to 20m max, always under the direct supervision of a diving professional.
The FFESSM is recognised by the CMAS (and some other agencies too), a little bit like PADI is working under RSTC standards if I can make this comparison.
A N1 FFESSM is an equivalent to a CMAS *, like an Open Water diver is an equivalent to a CMAS *. But a N1 FFESSM is qualified for what I said before and doesn't how to use a RDP or any diving tables.
IMO, he is less qualified than an PADI Open Water diver.
On the other hand, the FFESSM N2 course is more, way more than an AOW course. Tables and deco procedures are taught, as well as rescue skills (ascent with a distressed diver for example). Max depth is 40m once qualified.
Things can have changed since my training though... as I did N1 and N2 FFESSM, then Rescue, DM and IDC ^_^
Then, I have to disagree with the french arrogance. We are not arrogant, we are proud and love make the air move for nothing. We made the french revolution, then we had Cousteau (connection in between? I don't know. I told you we love make the air move for nothing.)
This is the french specificity; and that, BTW, make that me, as a PADI pro but with french nationality, I can not work in my own country as a diving pro, because I don't have the right diploma. Logic.
MN90 tables are taught to the N2 trainees.
Basically, a N1 FFESSM can dive to 20m max, always under the direct supervision of a diving professional.
The FFESSM is recognised by the CMAS (and some other agencies too), a little bit like PADI is working under RSTC standards if I can make this comparison.
A N1 FFESSM is an equivalent to a CMAS *, like an Open Water diver is an equivalent to a CMAS *. But a N1 FFESSM is qualified for what I said before and doesn't how to use a RDP or any diving tables.
IMO, he is less qualified than an PADI Open Water diver.
On the other hand, the FFESSM N2 course is more, way more than an AOW course. Tables and deco procedures are taught, as well as rescue skills (ascent with a distressed diver for example). Max depth is 40m once qualified.
Things can have changed since my training though... as I did N1 and N2 FFESSM, then Rescue, DM and IDC ^_^
Then, I have to disagree with the french arrogance. We are not arrogant, we are proud and love make the air move for nothing. We made the french revolution, then we had Cousteau (connection in between? I don't know. I told you we love make the air move for nothing.)This is the french specificity; and that, BTW, make that me, as a PADI pro but with french nationality, I can not work in my own country as a diving pro, because I don't have the right diploma. Logic.
This isn't uncommon. CMAS "variants" are allowed to deviate considerably from one place to another. They have a very different attitude than some other agencies about the need for uniformity across the board. In fact Jon's statements about his club are things that one would probably find are not even the norm within France. Once you get as far as the Netherlands then the CMAS variant here teaches to very different protocols yet again.
The up side of this approach, if you ask me, is that instructors have a great deal of freedom to account for local conditions, contingencies they feel need extra attention and skills they perceive to be essential. The down side is that it can lead to the situation where we have every CMAS club teaching a variation on a theme which can make it unclear when you see a certain CMAS cert what the diver *really* knows.
Personally, I've seen a lot of CMAS divers in the water. I live in the Netherlands and the NOB (a CMAS variant) is very big here. Under water, aside from certain quirks that you'll only probably notice if you're an instructor, you can't really distinguish NOB divers from PADI divers of the same level and experience. From Jon's responses, I would say in France that difference is likely to be more noticeable, although I have nothing really to go on but his word.
I did dive with a French FFESSM diver once, in Mexico. It's the only comparative experience I have. I was on vacation with a friend and we had made friends with the only person at the time in Puerto Escondido who owned a dive shop. He got us in contact with some local fishermen who could take us diving (he didn't have a boat) and gave us the keys to his shop when he left town for a weekend.
So we opened up on Saturday and were getting gear ready to go when two other divers walked in. One of them was a PADI diver who lived in Puerto Escondido and who we had met before. He wanted to tag along, so we agreed. The other guy was just a "walk in" from the street, a French FFESSM diver who was staying at a nearby hotel. We initially told him that this wasn't our shop and we were just some guys going diving. He insisted that he really wanted to go diving and since we had already arranged everything and blah blah blah... so eventually we agreed to take him.
That's when it started. We needed to carry all the gear down to the beach (about 200m) to the boat. He refused to carry his own tanks even after I told him that we weren't "running" anything for him. He said, "you said you would take me diving, so that means you take my gear to the boat and back".
I *should* have told him to go to hell but I didn't and we took him along. On the boat he wasn't any better. He refused to buddy up with the odd-man-out stating that his qualification would make him difficult for a PADI diver to dive with (our odd-man-out was a rescue diver with about 500 local dives worth of experience). I wasn't going to argue with him and I was really starting to dislike his attitude.
Under water he was a mess. He turned over rocks looking for things, started poking objects into holes to see what would come out, left a cloud of silt everywhere behind him (after all, he didn't need to see anythign behind him) and left me with the distinct impression of being the single most self-absorbed diver I had ever seen.
We made 2 dives and on the second dive I didn't see him. He swam left, we swam right and met back on the boat.
Once back at the shop he did have the good manners to ask if he owed us anything for the boat ride etc. I said yes, that we had agreed to split the cost of the boat and that we wanted to leave a nice tip for the owner of the dive shop who was nice enough to give us the keys.
In reality, the number I quoted him paid for the boat. The rest of us went diving for free that day thanks to him not thinking too much about it
R..
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