Any skills in AOW

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In the instructor's manual for AOW and specialties, there are a lot of things an instructor MAY do but is not required to do. How many of those things your instructor brings to the dives in your class depends on the instructor you have.
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Ill throw a torch in the dark and say I suspect it depends to some extent on the student - some people have some experience before taking AOW and others have only just finished OW and the latter will most likely work their way through the "have to's" slower and leave less opportunity for the "can do's"..

---------- Post added July 27th, 2014 at 03:02 PM ----------

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I agree with the above, it can be a very good course but depends how much effort the instructor wants to put in. Some of the topics for dives i'd class as worthless (boat etc)
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For someone with a bit of experience on dive boats, in say.. Cozumel or maybe the red sea Id say the fasttrack to AOW would be boat and drift diver with deep, nav and fish ID (Deep and Nav being required)...
The perfect 1-dive AOW course :p
 
"Drift" is one of my pet hates. It *CAN* be good if done properly but i see so many places teach it purely as "we exit somewhere else from where we got in" even with no current or drift conditions (dahab bells to blue hole for example).

Nav/Deep but then Boat, Drift and Naturalist is potentially one of the "learn nothing" options for AOW depending on who you do it with.
 
You learn compass navigation on OW. AOW takes that further with slightly more complex swim patterns (square rather than a simple out-and-back reciprocal).

I guess I disagree. OW compass is out and back. AOW Nav Dive 1 includes how many fin kicks to go a certain distance, and how long does that take, plus a segment on natural navigation. The fin-kick part is quite new to divers, and very useful on many dives afterwards. Getting some experience with natural nav is a great comfort-builder. I don't see these as either trivial or already covered in OW.
 
I guess I disagree. OW compass is out and back. AOW Nav Dive 1 includes how many fin kicks to go a certain distance, and how long does that take, plus a segment on natural navigation. The fin-kick part is quite new to divers, and very useful on many dives afterwards. Getting some experience with natural nav is a great comfort-builder. I don't see these as either trivial or already covered in OW.

I've never understood how counting fin kicks is useful as a practical navigation skill ... the only useful application I've ever found for it is the expanding box search pattern. On a real dive, nobody's going to keep track of how many times they kick ... particularly not newer divers who are already bandwidth-challenged just trying to maintain buoyancy control while keeping track of their depth and air consumption and trying to maintain some proximity to a dive buddy. I suppose it's useful as a training aid to introduce the concept of keeping track of distance travelled, but elapsed time and gas used can be a more practical way to do that unless you're at a fairly small dive site. It really is site-dependent, however ... there's a difference in terms of what works best for a reef, a wall, a slope or a wreck. Toss in current and things can get interesting. That's why awareness and "natural navigation" should be emphasized ... they're the tools most needed in the broadest array of dive environments.

At the AOW level I teach a "mental mapping" technique that uses depth, heading, elapsed time and visual clues to help you maintain an idea of where you are at any point in the dive relative to where you began the dive. It's not something you can master in a few dives ... but you can learn enough in an AOW class to develop the technique with practice.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I've never understood how counting fin kicks is useful as a practical navigation skill ... the only useful application I've ever found for it is the expanding box search pattern. On a real dive, nobody's going to keep track of how many times they kick ... particularly not newer divers who are already bandwidth-challenged just trying to maintain buoyancy control while keeping track of their depth and air consumption and trying to maintain some proximity to a dive buddy. I suppose it's useful as a training aid to introduce the concept of keeping track of distance travelled, but elapsed time and gas used can be a more practical way to do that unless you're at a fairly small dive site. It really is site-dependent, however ... there's a difference in terms of what works best for a reef, a wall, a slope or a wreck. Toss in current and things can get interesting. That's why awareness and "natural navigation" should be emphasized ... they're the tools most needed in the broadest array of dive environments.

At the AOW level I teach a "mental mapping" technique that uses depth, heading, elapsed time and visual clues to help you maintain an idea of where you are at any point in the dive relative to where you began the dive. It's not something you can master in a few dives ... but you can learn enough in an AOW class to develop the technique with practice.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I've had good experience with teaching fin kicks for distance, and I personally use it a lot. On a "real dive" if I tell them there is a cool anchor 80 feet away at 330 deg, they enjoy knowing how to go see the anchor, and not just blindly follow someone. How did the someone know how to get there? it is like the old VW ad, of a guy in a beetle driving through high snow to get to a snowplow....and the voice-over says, "How did you think the snowplow driver gets to work?" Also, if they know the wreck is 400 feet away, it is good to know about how long it will take to swim there; this helps in both dive planning and execution, and expands the diver's comfort zone. And if there is a current, all the better in training: swim both directions on a measured line; the average is your fin-kicks/distance, half the difference lets you estimate the current.

No argument about awareness and mental mapping, but some sites provide very few mapping clues. They need all the tools, not just some of them.
 
On a "real dive" if I tell them there is a cool anchor 80 feet away at 330 deg, they enjoy knowing how to go see the anchor, and not just blindly follow someone. How did the someone know how to get there?

"Drop here, take a heading of 330 degrees, and maintain that heading for 1 to 2 minutes."

It helps too if the site layout is such that a depth provides useful information (i.e. it ain't a flat site).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I use and have used kick cycles quite a bit navigating underwater and always have done. Comes in handy in low vis and i find it more accurate than a time.
 
Problem is if you kicked 125 cycles out WITH the current, then 67 across it and imagine 67 back and 125 in will you you anywhere close...
Coupled with bad vis thats an S&R waiting to happen..
 
For SDI AOW I had to do separate courses for nav, night, nitrox, deep, and search and recovery - in that order and with a not an inconsequential number of dives required before I could take the next course. After that my mentor required a minimum of 100 dives before I could cert at the solo level. I don't think the cost was more than the PADI route - but the training was a boatload more rigerous.
 
Problem is if you kicked 125 cycles out WITH the current, then 67 across it and imagine 67 back and 125 in will you you anywhere close...
Coupled with bad vis thats an S&R waiting to happen..

Anyone who hasn't taken a nav course may not know the conditions you describe are a serious problem. Anyone who HAS taken a nav course should know how to deal with those conditions. if they don't learn that from the class, the instructor sucked.
 
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