Any skills in AOW

[Tigerman]

Anyone who hasn't taken a nav course may not know the conditions you describe are a serious problem. Anyone who HAS taken a nav course should know how to deal with those conditions. if they don't learn that from the class, the instructor sucked.

Isn't that the general mantra of SB? PADI/The instructor sucks, you're gonna die?

The point still is that counting kicks is of limited use (although not useless)

 

[tursiops]

The point still is that counting kicks is of limited use (although not useless)

You are welcome to your opinion. That is not my experience. I guess if you don't know how to do it, it is not of much use to you.

 

[Tigerman]

Yeah, I cant count, that has to be it...

 

[kensuf]

For SDI AOW I had to do separate courses for nav, night, nitrox, deep, and search and recovery - in that order and with a not an inconsequential number of dives required before I could take the next course. After that my mentor required a minimum of 100 dives before I could cert at the solo level. I don't think the cost was more than the PADI route - but the training was a boatload more rigerous.

The SDI Advanced Adventure Diver is the basic equivalent of the PADI AOW, which I believe is what most of us are talking about here. It's a different animal from the SDI Advanced Diver course, which is completion of four or five specialties and 25 logged dives under your belt.

 

[Tigerman]

The SDI Advanced Adventure Diver is the basic equivalent of the PADI AOW, which I believe is what most of us are talking about here. It's a different animal from the SDI Advanced Diver course, which is completion of four or five specialties and 25 logged dives under your belt.

Which would pretty much be the same as PADI Master Diver...

 

[Kharon]

I guess I disagree. OW compass is out and back. AOW Nav Dive 1 includes how many fin kicks to go a certain distance, and how long does that take, plus a segment on natural navigation.

Guess you had a sucky OW instructor. Mine did everything you describe for AOW and more.

 

[tursiops]

Guess you had a sucky OW instructor. Mine did everything you describe for AOW and more.

For PADI, that would be a violation of standards. You are supposed to stay within the curriculum.

 

[String]

For PADI, that would be a violation of standards. You are supposed to stay within the curriculum.

Only if they made it a performance requirement and based pass/fail of the course on it.

You're allowed to quite happily add extras provided you can justify it and things like that i could justify easily.

You'd have an extremely dull and poor course if people only taught that absolute bare minimum standards with no extra information or experience imparted.

 

[DevonDiver]

I guess I disagree. OW compass is out and back. AOW Nav Dive 1 includes how many fin kicks to go a certain distance, and how long does that take, plus a segment on natural navigation.

Kick cycles aren't a performance standard (measured skill) on OW, but (see below) they are recommended for instructors to introduce at that level. Likewise, the first elements of natural navigation are also recommended (staying near the bottom, as this provides "another reference").

PADI OW Instructor Manual 2014:

"Compass Navigation — Swim a straight-line reciprocal course using a compass. Each diver navigates out and back."

PADI OW Teaching Guide 2014:

"Underwater Compass Navigation — As with the surface compass swim, learning is easier and more efficient when student divers first practice navigating on land. Begin this exercise at a fixed reference point underwater such as the descent or anchor line. Have buddy teams, accompanied by you (or a certified assistant at a 2:1 ratio), navigate on a predetermined heading out from the reference for a specified number of kick cycles (10 to 20), then turn and follow the reciprocal heading back to the reference point. Have divers stay near the bottom, which provides another reference besides the compass. If they don’t find the starting point at the end of the return course, they can surface to relocate the start point and see how accurate they’ve been. Each diver must successfully navigate out and back."

To not introduce kick-cycles and basic natural navigation isn't a breach of standards.... but it would be the application of the barest minimum standards in refusal to adopt the PADI recommended approach to teaching the underwater compass swim skill...

 

[Max Speed]

You have to fall out of a boat at night, drift away a bit as you sink below 60', see some fish on the way down and come back alive. Then you have to negotiate an impossible navigation course in near zero viz where your only hope of passing is to outlast the instructor in cold water or run him out of air.

All of this will teach you that you don't want to lose track of the down line while admiring pretty fish in deep water and running low on air.