AOW dive in the Spiegel Grove after 12 logged dives

[vondo]

There was a question on another thread wondering how new visitors to this site took all the attacks. I'm guessing icarus goes away and never comes back after this trip to the woodshed.

Hey Icarus, let me try to put a bit more positive spin on things: Congrats on getting your AOW and it's good to hear you enjoyed your dive even though things didn't go completely smoothly. Personally, I'm also glad to hear that you've concluded that something was a somewhat risky *without* having an accident. You learned something useful. Keep diving and the next time you do the SG, it should be more enjoyable. I'm still green and have done the SG twice. Both were among the more challenging dives I've done, but both dives were very rewarding, especially the first one.

Just don't follow your namesake

 

[Diveral]

The instructor left us on the deck of the SG where there was no current. We were 5 students including myself and we waited for around 7 minutes. It was part of the deep dive and as far as learning something I think we only learned a little experience. I loved the dive but I realize that it was beyond my abilities to do it safely. Another thing that you will love is the in the group of students I was the most experienced diver with 12 dives....the other students only had 10 or less....Hey, that was a potentially dangerous dive or what...

I'm glad you enjoyed the dive. Try some dives with some more experienced divers next. You are in a very convenient location to get a lot of good dives in. Hit Molasses and French reefs if you have not done so. There are also some good wrecks down there that usually don't have as severe currents as the SG does.

 

[EvaL]

Glad you made the dive and enjoyed it.

 

[RonFrank]

The instructor left us on the deck of the SG where there was no current. We were 5 students including myself and we waited for around 7 minutes. It was part of the deep dive and as far as learning something I think we only learned a little experience. I loved the dive but I realize that it was beyond my abilities to do it safely. Another thing that you will love is the in the group of students I was the most experienced diver with 12 dives....the other students only had 10 or less....Hey, that was a potentially dangerous dive or what...

One instructor for five VERY inexperienced divers on a wreck? You would have been MUCH better off doing Conch Reef as a drift where you can easily hit 100 feet, but it's easy to stay at 80feet or less, and no one has to worry about getting blown off.

You indicated that this shop was one of the BEST? Not based on this report. Leaving 5 inexperienced divers on the Grove at 90 feet sucking air, while the instructor does a bounce dive obviously NOT doing much in the way of safety stops is NOT my idea of good instruction, or safe diving on the behalf of the instructor, or the students.

To top it off, sounds like you did not even get to see the wreck. Hanging out on the deck for 7 minutes at one spot is hardly what I'd say would be a great dive on the Grove.

Well, glad no on got hurt!

So, did the student who called the dive pass AOW?

 

[Juls64]

How did it go?

 

[RonFrank]

There was a question on another thread wondering how new visitors to this site took all the attacks. I'm guessing icarus goes away and never comes back after this trip to the woodshed.

I don't believe anyone is attacking Icarus. People here are just pointing out that the Grove is NOT a dive for newbies, and based on his trip report, outside of an accident, everyones worries were rather well founded.

Let's review, the instructor leaves his group of students unattended on the deck at 90fsw while he rushes to the surface with a distressed student obviously skipping safety stops, and doing a fast ascent from depth based on the 7minutes it took him to go back up, and get back down. The instructor rushes back down to find his students low on air, and leads them back to the surface. Sure, what a great dive, and a safe profile for all... NOT! What did the students learn? Did they follow the plan? Did the instructor follow the agency teaching requirements before passing these students who are now all ALLOWED to dive the Grove on their own.

Sounds like a big CF to me! :11doh:

 

[Scubastud16]

I don't believe anyone is attacking Icarus.

you're kidding, right? i mean no offense, but thats ridiculous. i know im new here...im no scuba God. i dont have hardly any experience under my belt either, but you guys ripped the poor guy to shreds. yes you were concerned for his safety, blah, blah, blah. several of you (loosebits, mikeferrara, fixx or something like that) went way beyond giving him advice, and literally tore him a new one. no ones perfect, and im not saying what the dive company did was right (infact i think they were very, very wrong). some said something about new people looking at scubaboard and getting scared away....and thats exactly what i think this thread will do. i love scuba diving (with the little experience i have), and im not going to get scared away by some big, bad scuba bullies. infact, i learned quite a bit in this thread. but several of you took it way, way too far. i know im now slightly tainted towards the 'all knowing' scubaboard Gods....man you guys need to give it a break. yes, he could have been hurt or even died, you made that point. but insulting him and patronizing him? it wasnt necessary, and you guys should be ashamed.

 

[vondo]

I don't believe anyone is attacking Icarus.

Attack may be a strong word, but

So, you got in a bounce dive and the instructor considered it successful and completed training. Is that about it?

I really don't care how any one else dives but hearing about a circus like this ...

Sounds like this was a get em in get em done dive. What exactly did you learn? You should also think twice about going back under similar conditions or any for that matter on this dive in 20 or so without a guide of some kind.

You were not the most experienced. You were all total newbs.

I do not think I would brag about this dive to anyone, if I were you. Time and experience will make you regret it.

I guess I wouldn't really want to see what an attack actually looks like. Not to mention that we've had (in this thread) people jumping to conclusions (correct conclusions, it seems, but jumping none the less) about there not being a DM on the dive and a distortion of the dive profile for the students. Icarus mentions 10 minutes, but it is not clear to me that that 10 minutes isn't *after* the 7 they waited for the instructor to come back down. Event if it isn't, the instructor didn't come down to find the students low on air at that point.

Now, I don't *know* what happened and I'm not going to pass judgement even if I did, but consider that if you scare off new divers with "You were stupid, your instructor is stupid, and you're lucky you didn't die" they will miss out on a lot of very useful knowledge that can be gained here. Knowledge that will help them become better divers in the future.

 

[loosebits]

The "attacks" started after he came back with this:

Hey, that was a potentially dangerous dive or what...

What do you say to that? "Hey, great attitude. You're on the road to being a competent diver."

Why aren't people more worried about all the bad just-trust-the-instructor advice he got before the dive then the criticism he got after the dive?

 

[Scubastud16]

The "attacks" started after he came back with this:



What do you say to that? "Hey, great attitude. You're on the road to being a competent diver."

Why aren't people more worried about all the bad just-trust-the-instructor advice he got before the dive then the criticism he got after the dive?

it was sarcasm bro. he knew that it wasnt the safest dive, and he was making humor out of it. would i have done it? hell no. should he have? thats up to him. it was a joke, as bad as the humor might have been. im not saying i agree with the trust the instructor advice, but you really need to chill out and relax a little bit. as stated before, new divers tend to get that "trust the instructor" sense. i know i did on my first dives in my OW certification. i knew what was going on, and i was constantly in the loop as far as where we were going, how my buddy and i were, how much air we had left, etc. but that is what the instructor is there for. critique, a guide, and a sense of security for some.