AOW? Joke? Meaningless?

[Nemrod]

When was the last time you met an instructor who routinely fails students? When was the last time you met a student who failed OW or AOW? They are out there but rare. When there are no real standards but on paper and they are set so low that everyone passes then exactly what would you expect of such a course? Other than a pretty card?

N

 

[CNYMAD]

Guess I'm the exception. Did AOW after more than 100 dives in many locations but still learned a lot. Maybe just had a very good instructor?

 

[gr8jab]

I'm not talking down to you in any way, but watch the over-confidence creeping in.

Yes, understood. I don't mean to sound like that.

I really am a novice compared to most here. It's just that AOW was a huge disappointment in that it didn't teach me anything new or challenge me. Maybe I need to go for the full specialty courses, or Rescue Diver.

 

[boulderjohn]

When was the last time you met an instructor who routinely fails students? When was the last time you met a student who failed OW or AOW? They are out there but rare. When there are no real standards but on paper and they are set so low that everyone passes then exactly what would you expect of such a course? Other than a pretty card?

You know, this misstatement has been corrected so many times in the 11 years that both you and I have been on ScubaBoard that I have to wonder how you can possibly repeat it. Have you really not been paying attention, or are you intentionally supplying misinformation for some personal agenda?

The philosophy of scuba instruction changed many years ago to follow the precepts of Benjamin Bloom's theories of mastery learning. In traditional educational practice, time is the standard, and learning is the variable. That means you teach someone for a specific length of time, measure the results via an assessment, and then award a grade based on the score of that assessment. That score might be failing. In mastery learning, learning is the standard, and time is the variable. The instructor works through a sequence of learning and carefully monitors student progress. The student is not allowed to go to the next step in the sequence until formative assessment indicates the student is ready. The teacher continues to work with the student for whatever length of time it takes for students to reach the required level of mastery.

So, no one fails a class because the instructor continues to work with the student until the student is done. Many students who are struggling to learn will drop out of a class, deciding that scuba is not for them. Decades ago they would have "failed" the class. Today they just decided it wasn't going to work for them.

Interestingly enough, research on mastery learning indicates that it leads to an increase in the level of standards, not a lowering of standards. Knowing that a little more time and effort will get the student where the student needs to be allows the instructor to hold out for a better performance rather than give in and accept the weaker performance that should have failed the student.

 

[Peter Guy]

Yup -- It Is The Instructor -- OK. What COULD you have learned -- maybe not much, maybe a lot.

UW Navigation -- You say you are already skilled at using a compass -- well, how well can you use a compass and maintain situational awareness (i.e., depth, buddy, pressure and look at the pretty fishies)? What about "natural navigation" -- were you able to read the bottom to know what direction you should be going?

Deep -- were you able to write down your depth and pressure every 5 minutes (or were you able to remember both at the end of the dive)? What was yoru SAC rate on this dive compared to the other dives you did? At what depth did you lose Red, Yellow, Green, etc.? (Important if you are taking images.)

Drift -- What gas management plan did you use for this dive? What were your multi-levels and planned times at each level? What plan did you have and execute for "buddyness?"

These, and other, questions/exercises may be done for these dives. Perhaps if they had, you would have felt you got more value.

 

[tursiops]

OK... so I might sound a little snarky or superior when answering this, but I really don't mean it that way. Please read it as intended with a pleasant tone:

Well, I don't mean to be snarky either, but here goes. By the way, you really need to look up the Dunning Kruger effect....

Navigation

Counting kicks for 100 feet - Yea, OK, nice to know I kick 25 times for 100 feet. So?
Compass out-and-back, and square - In poor visibility or at night, this might be helpful. But, I found this shockingly rudimentary. I was a boy scout and am pilot and engineer, so maybe my skills are above average. I could have done this without training, half asleep, and missing one eye. In fact, skills that I would have thought useful to help compensate for drift were not even discussed.​

Knowing how many kicks to go 100 ft is a fundamental navigational skill. I tell you, "the old Spanish anchor is 300 feet to the West." How do you know when you've gone far enough? How do you know how long it will take to get there, so you can plan your dive?" The out-back-square exercise is shockingly difficult for people who are not Boy Scouts and pilots. Without being able to do this, the rest of the navigational skills are really inaccessible. Compensating for current? That is in the Navigation manual, and in the rest of the Navigation specialty. You can't get everything packed into one dive for AOW. And I'll bet good money there are some scuba methods to compensate for current that you never heard of as a Boy Scout or a pilot.
​

Deep

Wow, look at this crushed water bottle - Yea, so.
Hey, look his red shorts are not red! - Yea, so.​

There is no "crushed water bottle" on the AOW Deep dive, that is on dive 2. The color thing is amazing to most folks; just take a look at the endless questions/threads on GoPro filters on SB, and you'll see that people are completely mystified by the color change thing.
​

Boat

Giant Stride with rope loose in hand - Yes, I'd never done this before, but mastered it on the 1st try.
Look up, there's the boat, don't hit it - Done this before and knew not to surface under the boat.
Fins off and ladder exit - Done this many times before, and learned nothing new.​

Did you also learn how to manage your gear on a boat so you are filling up more than your allotted space? How about a tour of the boat to locate all the emergency and safety equipment? Did you pratice or at least talk about boat exists/entries ohter than the Giant Stride? How about diving from a RIB?
​

Night

Giant Stride with flashlight on and in hand - I always fumble with this a little, since I am also securing other gear and mask/reg during the entry.
Underwater signals in the dark - easy to forget sometimes, but obvious once you've done it.
Don't blind me bro - always happens anyway​

Did you discuss different kinds of lights for different purposes? How about signals other than "over here" or OK?" Don't you wish everybody had taken a decent Night class so they wouldn't shine their lights in your eyes? How about using the compass at night?
​

Drift

Here, hold this rope - I'd never done this before, but it was simple.
Deploy DSMB - I asked to do this, since I had never done it before. It would not have happened otherwise. I wish I could do it several more times with an instructor's help.​

This dive is very environment-dependent. Typical problems are buddy separation, buddy-teams not all acending together, banging into the environment, tangling oneself and others in the buoy/flag line, and trying to take pictures during a high-current drift. Sounds like you had a pretty benign dive.
​

 

[high/baric]

It might not have taught you all that much, but the AOW is more of an introduction to the various specialties PADI (or your agency of choice) has to offer. I took it when I had something like 15 dives and found the navigation and search and recovery (one of my optionals) interesting. As for the deep dive, sure, it has some useful information, but nothing you didn't already know about if you read the open water manual. So it's mostly just to extend your max depth. And let me tell you, even if you didn't find the course all that rewarding, the next time you are doing guided dive on a holiday at a popular dive spot and your group of a couple of AOW people + guide are enjoying the reef wall at 25 meters all by yourselves while all those dozens of OW divers are splashing and kicking and silting away in a tangle of fins and hoses 10 meters above you, you'll be SO glad you took AOW. I have never regretted it for a second.

PS: No offence meant for any OW people

 

[Nemrod]

You know, this misstatement has been corrected so many times in the 11 years that both you and I have been on ScubaBoard that I have to wonder how you can possibly repeat it. Have you really not been paying attention, or are you intentionally supplying misinformation for some personal agenda?

It is my opinion, I guess I do not agree with you and that is okay. And the multitudes of very poor results swimming about battering the reefs is proof that it has at least some validity regardless of what hypothesis of learning that you are applying. There are many good instructors and many good students. I do not agree that the typical three day course allows much individual work and one on one to instruction to move that student to the desired level and yet very few are told to come back for additional remedial training.

So, while I admire you as an instructor and have no doubt you do a wonderful job, you are far more the exception unfortunately. I will therefore stay with my assessment and as all generalities, in particular specific instructor or student may be an exception but the multitudes of AOW students and even instructor level divers who are quite poor in their water skills does bear my opinion out.

Frankly, if the results I see, that result in the requisite level of extreme and ubiquitous nannyism (which effects the quality of diving available) that is apparently required today then I would think I prefer the old way, not much into social promotions.

I do not think new divers need to be supermen and women. I think the standards in general of the ABC agencies are okay, so it is apparently the methodology or application of (or lack of application) perhaps of some of these learning hypothesis which may not all that grande after all. Ww have kids who cannot read and write (cursive) and now we have divers who cannot dive but for being coddled and hand held. Yes, it is an issue with me because it affects the quality of diving available to mature divers.

And let me add, I will not get into a back and forth banter. I accept your opinion, I have mine and I have stated it. Yes, I have an agenda, that cards actually be accepted at face value, that the quality of diving available is more active and adventurous and less coddled and throttled back. Yes, it is an agenda, now that I am 61yo I want to be treated like an adult.

James

 

[freewillie]

OK... so I might sound a little snarky or superior when answering this, but I really don't mean it that way. Please read it as intended with a pleasant tone:

Navigation

Counting kicks for 100 feet - Yea, OK, nice to know I kick 25 times for 100 feet. So?
Compass out-and-back, and square - In poor visibility or at night, this might be helpful. But, I found this shockingly rudimentary. I was a boy scout and am pilot and engineer, so maybe my skills are above average. I could have done this without training, half asleep, and missing one eye. In fact, skills that I would have thought useful to help compensate for drift were not even discussed.​

Deep

Wow, look at this crushed water bottle - Yea, so.
Hey, look his red shorts are not red! - Yea, so.
​

Boat

Giant Stride with rope loose in hand - Yes, I'd never done this before, but mastered it on the 1st try.
Look up, there's the boat, don't hit it - Done this before and knew not to surface under the boat.
Fins off and ladder exit - Done this many times before, and learned nothing new.​

Night

Giant Stride with flashlight on and in hand - I always fumble with this a little, since I am also securing other gear and mask/reg during the entry.
Underwater signals in the dark - easy to forget sometimes, but obvious once you've done it.
Don't blind me bro - always happens anyway​

Drift

Here, hold this rope - I'd never done this before, but it was simple.
Deploy DSMB - I asked to do this, since I had never done it before. It would not have happened otherwise. I wish I could do it several more times with an instructor's help.

​

It comes back to your instructor, although I'm surprised that you did not include Peak Performance Buoyancy as a requisite skill. Did you actually swim far enough to lose sight of your marker for navigation? I had to swim out far enough that at the end of the first kick cycle I lost sight of the marker. From there had to navigate both a square but also a triangle to get back. If there was no current at your site then your instructor did you a disservice. It's fine and dandy to do a simple square with no current, but if you lose sight of your objective and you get pushed off course then your not back at the original starting point.

Boat diving, really. You are complaining that you did not learn anything from AOW but you included a simple specialty that really doesn't add much to your diving experience. You don't need a specialty course to do a giant stride off a boat.

Night diving as a specialty does not generally need a specialty course either. I did it as part of my AOW. My daughter did her first night dive as the Manta Ray Night dive in Kona, HI. She had basic OW at the time. My instructor however took us out on the reef for the night dive. He did warn us ahead of time that we had to find our way back in the dark. Once we got out to the end of the reef he made a signal for home and then we had to lead. He was trying to see if we counted our kick cycles done during Navigation. The reef looks different at night and it's harder to Navigate visually.

If all you took out of Deep diving was crushing a soda bottle and change of color then you completely missed the point of the specialty. The other skill my instructor had us do was calculate bottom time. You can make a AL 80 last for 45-60 minutes at 45-60 feet, but try doing that at 100 feet. You will be out of air in 20 minutes. The point is to be aware that the deeper you go not only invites narcosis but that you consume air at a much faster rate. We actually sat at the bottom at 100 feet for 2-3 minutes and watched the PSI drop over that time.

You instructor may just walked through the requirements, or you didn't challenge yourself either. Or both.

At the very least you now have a card that will allow you to sign up for more advanced dives that require AOW certification like the back wall dives Molokini Crater in Maui. No cert, no dive. Even with 70 dives.

 

[Centrals]

I learnt a lot from AOW both practically and theoretically. But it is really not suitable for diver who had just completed OW.
BTW, I am still learning after 19yrs and 1900 dives.
Keep learning.
Plenty of operators in SE Asia would NOT let you go beyond 18m without AOW.