AOW right after OWD

[TerryC]

Pro's and con's ... if your time is limited and you're only planning to dive under supervision, nine dives worth of training is better than four dives worth. On the other hand, if you're struggling with basic comfort, awareness, and buoyancy control, you're not likely going to get anything out of AOW ... and you certainly won't come out of it even remotely qualified to plan and execute a deep dive without supervision. Sadly, having access to deep dives is exactly why most folks take AOW.

I personally won't allow my students to go directly from OW to AOW ... not if they want the latter class from me. I want them to gain some experience, get comfortable with OW-level skills, and develop a little bit of confidence in their underwater ability first. That way they can focus on learning new things, rather than using the class to simply reinforce what they were supposed to have already learned. Then again, I don't train divers to follow dive guides and rely on someone else to make all their decisions for them. I won't take a diver deep until I'm confident that their buoyancy control won't result in an accidental ascent, and their awareness level is at least adequate to keep track of their depth, time, NDL and remaining gas ... and that's the bare-bones minimum starting point. I won't train complex navigation until they can look at their compass without losing buoyancy control, or need to settle on their knees first.

To be fair, there's only so much the typical student can learn in four or five OW dives (depending on agency) ... after that, they should get out and practice. My rule of thumb is get completely comfortable with what you learned in the last class before considering signing up for the next one. That way you can concentrate on the new stuff, rather than the things you should already have "mastered" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, could not have put it better myself, exactly the way I train and recommend to my students.

As for the deep dive training on AOW, well I put an awful lot into the "Deep" dive briefing, OK not all of my students are going to be able to come out at "expert" level but they do go away with an understanding of gas management, redundant air supplies, proper dive planning and enough knowledge to know that jumping off the boat and going to 100 ft without proper planning is going to get them into trouble.
I also do the deep dive as the last dive of the course, by then we have much more confidence, buoyancy issues have been solved, any remedial training (from OW) has been done and they have already gained a lot of knowledge and some experience.

 

[AaronRiot]

A had a dozen or so spread out in between.

My MAIN reason was because I was traveling alone and into a new environment. The ocean. My experience had been in lakes. It was either rent a private DM for a few days or AOW. Clearly not a tough decision. Best choice I made. One on one instruction and a buddy for the first few boat dives in Coz.

 

[scjoe]

The real problem in all this is that OW as currently taught most places should be considered little more than Scuba Adventure (or whatever they call the teaser course). AOW shouldn't have deep component to it, that should be a separate course. It should be just a continuation of OW so that at the end, the diver might actually be an independent diver. If they are going to do just one warm water dive vacation led by a DM before going off to their next adventure sport, then the OW course might suffice. If they want to actually get into diving they need AOW and Rescue. By then they will have something close to what an OW cert was years ago, but they need to work their way down in terms of depth. It is pretty idiotic to train people at one depth, initially certify them to a depth they haven't been trained at and then jump them down to 90 feet with a few more dives only one of which is at 90 feet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The real problem in all this is that OW as currently taught most places should be considered little more than Scuba Adventure (or whatever they call the teaser course). AOW shouldn't have deep component to it, that should be a separate course. It should be just a continuation of OW so that at the end, the diver might actually be an independent diver. If they are going to do just one warm water dive vacation led by a DM before going off to their next adventure sport, then the OW course might suffice. If they want to actually get into diving they need AOW and Rescue. By then they will have something close to what an OW cert was years ago, but they need to work their way down in terms of depth. It is pretty idiotic to train people at one depth, initially certify them to a depth they haven't been trained at and then jump them down to 90 feet with a few more dives only one of which is at 90 feet.

... the real problem is that way too many instructors never really learned how to dive before they started teaching, so it doesn't really matter how long their class is ... they can't teach what they haven't really taken the time to learn ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tigerman]

The real problem in all this is that OW as currently taught most places should be considered little more than Scuba Adventure (or whatever they call the teaser course). AOW shouldn't have deep component to it, that should be a separate course. It should be just a continuation of OW so that at the end, the diver might actually be an independent diver. If they are going to do just one warm water dive vacation led by a DM before going off to their next adventure sport, then the OW course might suffice. If they want to actually get into diving they need AOW and Rescue. By then they will have something close to what an OW cert was years ago, but they need to work their way down in terms of depth. It is pretty idiotic to train people at one depth, initially certify them to a depth they haven't been trained at and then jump them down to 90 feet with a few more dives only one of which is at 90 feet.

The intent of the OW course as it is, is to make you an independent although conservative diver. My final checkout dive was actually me and my buddy (also a diver being trained) going for - shocking - a DIVE. The only thing the instructor did on that dive was check our plan and check that we stuck to it. No leading us anywhere, no giving input - just checking. This is what SHOULD be done and its what the divers in training SHOULD be comfortable with. If you are not, you need more training and you SHOULDNT be passed and certified. Problem is people is dead set on getting their cards, qualified or not and lots of people find it hard to deny them..

 

[cephasiii]

There is a difference between certification and qualification. AOW gives you a certification but does not qualify you for anything. Ok, you can now make dives to 100ft or the depth you were trained to (PADI says no deeper than 100ft for the deep dive in AOW. Its a certification and up to the diver to gain more experience. AOW exposes you to different aspects of diving. You then have to go get that specialty cert to be "qualified" to make those dives. I use qualify loosely because I know how these DBs go.
Just my $.02
BTW, just like most things, its the instructor who makes or breaks the class. If they are good, the divers are better qualified to make dives. If the instructor is bad, well then, looks like they probably just wasted their money and recieved an expensive plastic card.


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[Tigerman]

Unless youre qualified, youre not getting certified.. or atleast you shouldnt be..

 

[uncfnp]

With that said, I don't consider myself an "advanced" diver by any means but having taken the OW/AOW classes back to back (only one dive in between) has made me a more confidant OW diver for sure.

I agree and propose a name change. Padi Open Water 1 and Open Water 2.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I work with from 12 to 24 advanced open water students per year in direct contact at open water training weekends. Some have no dives since their open water certificsation dives, and some have 60 dives or more. Leaving aside the useless sarcasm about marketing, having dealt with this issue for a long time, let me share my observations. First, all dive training from my LDS is worth while. Students at any level of experience will finish the AOW class as better divers than when they began. Students who have at least 12 non-training dives following certification will get more out of the class, because they have a reference for applying the skills they will learn of expand from their prior course. Each AOW student is evaluated in the ope water on the first dive, generally a limited task dive, in our case and atltitude dive, to which I will add some task loading, like deployment of an SMB from depth. In our AOW classes, we stress three things on every dive: buoyancy control, navigation skilss, and maintenance of both when occupied with tasks assigned. Of course dive planning is also stressed. We cetify AOW divers who accomplish all assigned tasks and do all the dives, AND who demonstrate comfort and control while diving. we train in more stressful conditions than most divers encounter on recreational dives. ( cold water, low viz, very silty bottom) so students are stressed more than normal. When they get their AOW card, they are still recreational divers. They are not cave certified, or tech certified in any way, but as recreational divers they have expanded their training to become better and more independent recreational divers. If I had my way, however, we would reuire a minimum of `12 non-training dives, logged and verified, before entry into the class. But I do not get my way, so I work to help divers grow so they can go a little deeper comfortably and safely, find their way back to boat or shore, and get ti a point where I am confortable with them diving under recreational conditions without a professional guide. The limits of their independent diving qwill be determined by them, but with a clear understanding of what their skill and comnfort level is. They all learn that. So if you just finished you open water certification, or if you have 50 or more dives, I am all for your taking the AOW class, but you will get more out of it ( based on my observations and experience) if you have some dive time under your belt before you begin. Much will be expected of you, maybe not at the outset of the class, but certainly to have an instructor sign off on you as an advanced diver ( if they are doing it right). We sell diver education, not certification cards.
DivemasterDennis

 

[herbdb]

There is also a problem with waiting a long time, like I did. If you are an avid diver with many dives in a variety of locations you learn very little in the AOW course. I just bought a card so dive operators in the US would take me to deep sites. I think AOW would be most beneficial after 10-20 buddy dives. Too soon and student is just getting more supervised diving before they are ready to really benefit. But still better than too late.