Argon vs Air in dry suits

[wedivebc]

Single tank recreation dives using air or nitrox in moderately cold waters? Don't bother with argon. I agree that drygloves and a good hood will be a better return on investment... not only in making you *feel* warmer but in reducing metabolic stress.

Hoods and gloves are way cheaper too . I stopped using argon because I guess I had the ani-placebo effect. I believe it to be no better so it isn't.
When doing trimix dives I use my lowest o2 deco mix as suit inflation. It sure simplifies my rig since I have 1 less tank/reg to carry around.

 

[wedivebc]

Here's my question.

Did the test put sufficient thermal stress on the divers to actually see their core body temperature reduce significantly? Seems to me it's kind of irrelevant if no one's core temperature changed. A good test would drive them all into mild hypothermia then look at the differences.

You should ask this guy David.Sawatzky@drdc-rddc.gc.ca He's the diving doc who did a bunch of studies for the Canadian Navy. I figure if anyone knows about hypothermia it's Canadian Navy divers.

 

[Vertigo]

Perhaps the placebo effect...but...

Everyone in my peer group notices a difference when using Argon...I don't purge the suit with Argon either..when I compare the same dive with the same water temperature and the same undergarment, we always feel much warmer with Argon.

I suggest you borrow someones Argon rig and try it.

If it is indeed a "sugar pill" the worst that can happen is a bad case of acne and a few hundred bucks on your credit card.

V.

 

[Groundhog246]

I don't have the 'study' I read to hand. It was a very small test group (about 6 divers). Each did 2 dives of 1 hour, resting on the bottom. 1 dive each with air and argon. They had both skin surface and rectal thermometers. The divers and attendants did not know which gas they were diving (double blind). Along with the thermometers, the divers were asked to subjectively rate their warmth. Only one diver on one dive reported getting cold and he was diving argon at the time.
Conclusion of the study was that there was no measurable decrease in heat loss. That over 50% of heat loss was breathing cold gases and that along with heat loss through the head (no dry hood) meant that even if there was a small decrease, it was not enough to compensate for the added complications of another tank/1st stage/hose plus the added risk of someone mistaking the argon botle for a small air pony (WHO, on a dive site with dry suit divers of the type who'd consider argon, would consider a 6 or eve 13 cu ft bottle as a possible air source?) made it a poor idea, EXCEPT when the primary gas contained helium.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

An intriguing concept ... how, I wonder, does one dive in a drysuit with a thermometer stuck between the cheeks ... :11:

On second thought ... perhaps I really don't wanna know ...

.. Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Uncle Pug]

Or who would think to use a suit inflator hose as an alternate airsource or a 6cf bottle labelled ARGON as a pony bottle?

Wait... Canadian Navy divers? OK... maybe that explains the thermometer as well.

 

[Groundhog246]

I've seen 2 (THAT'S TWO) argon bottles this year that were NOT labeled ARGON and had regular K valves on em. So, if someone was to pick up one of those, slap their own reg on it for a backup, they'd be in trouble if they attempted to breath it. Who'd bother to carry a 6cf as a pony bottle? Who buys a spare air? For myself, if I'm going to carry a pony bottle, it's going to have some size (mine is 30cf).

 

[SoScuba]

I've seen 2 (THAT'S TWO) argon bottles this year that were NOT labeled ARGON and had regular K valves on em. So, if someone was to pick up one of those, slap their own reg on it for a backup, they'd be in trouble if they attempted to breath it. Who'd bother to carry a 6cf as a pony bottle? Who buys a spare air? For myself, if I'm going to carry a pony bottle, it's going to have some size (mine is 30cf).

All I can say is if your stupid enough to pick up a strange bottle, stick a reg on it, and start breathing on it on the surface or at depth without knowing whats in it then it should be your last dive regardless of whether or not you survive!

Sean

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Easy Sean, it's not like the guy left his drysuit at home or something

Groundhog, Somewhere I have a copy of a similar, but larger study done on this topic as well. Their bottom line was, reagrdless of all the hoop-la and voodoo science, there was no REAL evidence to suggest any meaningful difference.

Personally?? I don't know, or won't say, as I don't think I've used Argon enough times (As I don't have a system) to prove to myself whether it conclusively works for me or not. The few times I have used argon, I haven't noticed a difference. Certainly not scientific.

Steve

 

[MaxBottomtime]

There was a thread on the Rodale's board about best and worst gear purchases. One guy said his best purchase was an argon bottle to keep warm in his drysuit. His worst purchase was an argon bottle, because it's just a placebo.