Barge Expedition on Doubles report:

[Guy Alcala]

Hi all

ive dove the Barge 3 times, in a single HP100. Love it. great viz all three times. short dives though.

I had a quick question about the swim legs along the line- its about 600ft, correct? How long did it take you guys?

Im doing the calculations for a single tank Al80 / HP100 dive there (using the numbers for the Al80 to give a little padding for the HP100) and get to a run time of 22-24 minutes for our average SAC rates, depth of 66feet and rock bottom.

if the swim outs are 10 mins or so, doesnt give us a whole lot of tourist time... I want to show it to KLJ at some point in the nearish future- literally a quick visit to show her it. Not looking to do an extended swim around, but more than 5 mins would be nice.

Cheers

It's 570 feet or a bit less direct from the base of the wall at the '13', and around 600' if you use the line. It can be done on an Al80 with a decent SAC, but Katie's probably won't be that low until she gets 30 dives or so, and in any case most people will only have gas for one quick circuit of the barge before heading back. I recommend using a 95 or bigger to give you some time out there.

I've done the swim out the line in anything from 5 to 14 minutes depending on who I was with, how I was feeling, conditions, gear etc. Solo I tend to swim fast, usually 6-7 minutes, and using about 500 PSI from a HP100 on the way out or averaging about 70 PSI (2 cu.ft.)/minute at depth. I'm often slightly slower/more relaxed on the way back, and only use 400-450 or so. Taking the trip even slower I may only be averaging 50 PSI/min. The 14 minute trip involved three of us taking our time, one pushing a big video camera with lights.

Average depth on the run out and back will be in the mid to high 50s. Depth at the base of the wall will be 14'-16' shallower than the depth at the barge; depth at the inner sandscrew will be 12'-14' less than at the barge. Depth at the shore side of the barge will vary from 58' to 67' depending on the tide. It has to be a minus tide to go below 60', and depth averages 63'. At the barge you can just idle around, and I've seen my RMV down as low as .32, although I'm usually in the high .30s to mid .40s and I've been up as high as 0.64 (crummy vis, surge, and lots of sea nettles). I tend to figure RMV of 0.9 for transit, 0.6 at the barge, which is usually very conservative. With a 100, I can usually get out there, do a slow circuit or two, come back to the wall and then in along it until I can stand up.

originally posted by Mike Guerrero

I know the scooter people do the grand circuit, but you need to have a scooter to get that expedition, I think Ben Ca is he coordinator of that event.

Mike, it's possible to swim the Grand Circuit/Grand Tour, on a single tank even. But you need good compass/distance estimation nav. skills, and IIRR you'll be swimming around 2,500 ft. submerged.

Guy

 

[Peter_C]

I can find the barge EVERY TIME! GPS is a wonderful tool. It takes me about 1 minute after descent to get to the barge. I have only dove it in doubles, as our second dive of the day after doing Ballbuster. The barge is a fun dive and I was amazed at the size of the rock fish.

you don't want to make a direct ascent to the surface at the barge.

Yes I do!

Sorry just playin', thanks for sharing your report Mike. Ben still owes me a grand tour as he failed on our night dive. Might have something to do with the 3 foot vis if even that. We over ran our lights quick and had to get off the trigger. Wound up calling the dive in less than 15 minutes.

 

[keithdiver]

Casey,

It was really cool to have bumped into you and your buddy. I wanted to go watch you launch the Scooters into the water, but had to stay for support on a class.

You also had a big grin on your face as did your friend when you both spoke about the scooters.

I am saving up for one, and now can only wait...

Say, I would love to do a doubles dive with you if you bring down your doubles for Lobos, like we did a long time ago, so what do you say? It would be so much fun diving with you again. :cool2:

MG

Mike good for you, i am really proud of you Keep it up, would love to come to the west coast an dive with you one day.

 

[KLJ]

It can be done on an Al80 with a decent SAC, but Katie's probably won't be that low until she gets 30 dives or so...

Guy,

Sorry to hijack the post with a personal question, but just wondering. What constitutes a "decent" SAC rate?

I haven't done many dives (11 total), but here is information on an "average" dive. I had a 0.79 SAC with a AL63 on a 42 minute dive to Metridium Fields (max depth = 51 feet, average depth = 35 feet).

-Katie

 

[np251]

sorry for the hijack mike!! For some reason, i keep coming in and crashing your stuff! Good report by the way, and good to see you enjoying the dubs.

Guy- Thanks for the detailed post. I think its great that you spend so much time explaining the details- makes for a good read and its easy to follow. I made all the calculations with a .8 sac rate and calculating for a depth of 65 all the way from the wall to the barge. Adds a little conservatism. The few times ive done it, it was very much out-look around for 2 mins- back. Katie is actually doing real well- her last calculated sac was .79 at metridium fields (out and back along the pipe for about 45 mins run time) and that was on her 7th dive out. I was still way out in 1.3 territory at that stage (although the vis in Monterey is a wee bit better than West coast scotland, so you guys have it easy ) I think Ill get her into an HP100 for a Barge trip.

Gombessa- yeah, treating it like a virtual overhead is a must. Do not want to come up in that boat lane. I have a big 7ft SMB so if we needed to ascend we could, but it isnt part of the standard gas plan. One of the big things i remember from past dives there was the constant prop-whirr all the time, so the boats are always around. Or its Ben buzzing us on the scooter...

Now, back to mikes thread.

Cheers

 

[dannobee]

Guy,

Sorry to hijack the post with a personal question, but just wondering. What constitutes a "decent" SAC rate?

I haven't done many dives (11 total), but here is information on an "average" dive. I had a 0.79 SAC with a AL63 on a 42 minute dive to Metridium Fields (max depth = 51 feet, average depth = 35 feet).

-Katie

I'm a fat old man and my sac rate varies in our waters from 0.45-0.50. In warm water it gets down as low as 0.32, but reliably around 0.35 or so.

As you dive more, and you get your weighting and trim correct, it will fall. There are also some "tricks" to breathe properly, (without skip breathing,btw) but work on trim and weighting first. You want to be relaxed in the water.

 

[Guy Alcala]

Guy,

Sorry to hijack the post with a personal question, but just wondering. What constitutes a "decent" SAC rate?

I haven't done many dives (11 total), but here is information on an "average" dive. I had a 0.79 SAC with a AL63 on a 42 minute dive to Metridium Fields (max depth = 51 feet, average depth = 35 feet).

-Katie

Good question, and I was thinking of 'decent' in terms of guys; yours will be less. At your level of experience, 0.79 isn't bad at all (I'm assuming you calculated using average depth, and not max. depth); mine was probably near or over 1.0 at the same point. It would probably serve to get you to the barge and back to the wall with a decent reserve on an 80, assuming you're comfortable with the idea of being deeper and having boat traffic overhead. By the time most people get 25-30 dives, assuming they get them relatively quickly, their SAC/RMV typically takes a big step downwards, then continues to decrease more slowly until they reach their personal minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if yours dropped to 0.65 fairly soon, as you decrease your lead and fine tune your trim. The rest is mostly just getting more streamlined and efficient in the water, but depending on their size, it's not uncommon for experienced women to have average RMVs of 0.45 or less.

Guy

 

[Ben_ca]

Nice report Mike,

(hijack cont...)
As far as dive planning the barge. Some people are willing to do this dive in a single tank but I personally wouldn't... The others have already chimed in about the 'virtual overhead" but there is also the fact that some people think of the good dives (nice relaxed, comfortable conditions) when they calculate their SAC rate.... I think it should be the other way around. Take the worst case scenario and use that for planning. Because if something goes wrong your nice calm SAC rate will soon disappear and now you are even more stressed because the needle is dropping faster than you thought it would. Also consider that if you do get into an emergency out there (or between the Met fields and barge for that matter) You'll have to tow your buddy to shore. A not so easy task if you are not in good shape.

Sorry for the hijack but just wanted to get my 2 cents in.

 

[kathydee]

One thing to keep in mind for the sake of newer divers reading the thread--the Barge is pretty far out there, and it's in the boat traffic lane; as such should probably be considered a virtual overhead for gas planning purposes; i.e., you don't want to make a direct ascent to the surface at the barge.

As far as dive planning the barge. Some people are willing to do this dive in a single tank but I personally wouldn't... The others have already chimed in about the 'virtual overhead" but there is also the fact that some people think of the good dives (nice relaxed, comfortable conditions) when they calculate their SAC rate.... I think it should be the other way around. Take the worst case scenario and use that for planning

Sorry Mike more hi-jacking .

There are plenty of great dives with fewer risks that the barge for newish single tank divers. I've had plenty of offers to visit the barge in a single tank but never felt comfortable with the idea. I agree with Ben about carrying more gas, just in case you encounter the unpredictable.

Somehow, I've just never felt cheated by saving some dive sites to enjoy later. I'd rather take it slow and play it safe, learn more skill and technique in less potentially challenging environments. I'm not in a hurry to check everything out in a short time as my hope is to dive for many, many years .

With over 130 local dives, it's actually quite nice to have easily accessable sites like the Barge still awaiting discovery. Since we are diving doubles now, we have the luxury of lingering and enjoy the site with no reason to rush back to shore.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Nice report Mike,

(hijack cont...)
As far as dive planning the barge. Some people are willing to do this dive in a single tank but I personally wouldn't... The others have already chimed in about the 'virtual overhead" but there is also the fact that some people think of the good dives (nice relaxed, comfortable conditions) when they calculate their SAC rate.... I think it should be the other way around. Take the worst case scenario and use that for planning. Because if something goes wrong your nice calm SAC rate will soon disappear and now you are even more stressed because the needle is dropping faster than you thought it would. Also consider that if you do get into an emergency out there (or between the Met fields and barge for that matter) You'll have to tow your buddy to shore. A not so easy task if you are not in good shape.

Sorry for the hijack but just wanted to get my 2 cents in.

I really think Ben Ca and Gombessa summed it up about this site not being for beginners. Their reasons are rock solid and like Neil said, you constantly hear the propellers from the engines!

It's also not just a soft motor sound, it's nothing I've experienced before, it's very loud and strong, must be at times a large vessel.

I have become over time a more cautious diver than before, thanks to my training and all my diving friends here on scubaboard, this dive, I will not do on singles, but that's because I own doubles.

I will leave my pair of HP 100's to shallow dives and boat fun/simple diving.

I've finally gotten the hang of what type of gear to bring for a particular dive.

I took my SMB w/reel, I also had wet notes and an extra mask.

Having the excessive amount of air from doubles really sealed the comfort in diving the barge and once I got there, I had plenty of air to explore the wreck in detail. Once it was time to leave, I had plenty of air to make it back all the way to the shore where I exited at 4 ft.

Also as Kathy stated, I dove this expedition with not just one DM but three that are very familiar with the site, I wouldn't have it any other way, just the type of diver I have become, I can thank K a little for adopting that type of mentality.

Anyway, props need to be mentioned to all the single divers that have dove successfully the barge, Neil, Kristina and of course Guy.

But you should remember that Guy is not a beginner diver, far from it. Has anyone on this board had a one/one conversation with this dude? Seriously he is to me the Guru of Break Water.

He is an intense, very knowledgeable diver that has the Math all packed away for the dive, if you get lost with him then you were not really diving with Guy but some other diver that calls himself just a Guy diver.