Believe me, we'd love to take your money...

[GrimSleeper]

grimsleeper-under what circumstance WOULD you be happy taking someone through the cave concerned? Not a trick question here. Ive been lucky enough to do some easy wrecks and in my opinion easy cave dives with different dive ops But its always been after a few dives with them. I guess its a bit of a two way street for me. I need to know YOU aren't a cowboy as much as you need to know I'm not an eejut.

You've partly answered your own question, kazbanz. We need to see people in the water first.

What amazes me is that people walk in, offer no evidence of experience because they have little or none, and expect to go straight off and do an overhead dive. Not only that, but some refuse to do any other diving - it's just about ticking a box marked 'cave'. And you're right - that attitude is compounded by the fact that they know absolutely nothing about us, our operation, our staff: we could, indeed, be complete cowboys. And yet they're prepared to risk only finding that out once they're 30m underground in the dark.

---------- Post added August 20th, 2013 at 03:20 PM ----------

According to your SB posted credentials, you are not a cave instructor or even a cave diver. I would be wondering why you would take ANY diver into what, by definition, is a cave.

"or even a cave diver". Feisty words. Feel free not to make any dive with me that you don't feel I'm capable of. Given that you're in Canada and average water temp where I do most of my diving is 84F, I suspect I'd look dangerously stupid the first few times you dipped me in for a dive in your neck of the woods...

I don't present myself as a cave instructor or certified cave diver. I also don't TAKE anyone anywhere. I accompany people on dives they want to make, if I think they have the skills and experience to make that dive safely.

You're welcome to argue that, without a cave certification, I don't have the knowledge to make that call. In return I'd argue that something north of 3,000 hours underwater, including a lot of overhead, zero viz, extreme depth and dealing with divers in varying states of panic, along with training up to full trimix, technical wreck penetration and various instructor levels, not to mention more dives in the cave in question than your profile says you've ever made, at least gives me a starting point. Please bear in mind, I'm not telling people they SHOULD make this dive - I'm troubled by how people shouldn't and yet will argue to the point of ridiculousness that they should be taken there.

Surely, by your logic, my own lack of cave certifications should just be another reason for inexperienced divers NOT to want to make the dive, rather than arguing that they think they'll be fine, which was the original point?

 

[windapp]

Surely, by your logic, my own lack of cave certifications should just be another reason for inexperienced divers NOT to want to make the dive, rather than arguing that they think they'll be fine, which was the original point?

I most certainly would not argue your original point. I also would also agree that for well known small caves, technical wreck penetration training should allow one to safely navigate the environment providing that the same protocols are followed.

I know (through research) quite bit about penetration and line handling requirements. In my opinion, this qualify's me to select an instructor for myself, and nothing more.

 

[femftal]

Aruba, SE Fly N Dive took me there, it was about a 5 minute, or less, boat ride off of their dock.

I also did this dive on my very first open water trip with Fly N Dive. It's called Arashi Airplanes - the reef surrounding them is Arashi which is a great dive in and of itself. My husband is a pilot (with quite a few more dives than me) and happily swam right in and I have a great photo of him in the cockpit. However, as I had all of about 4 dives to my name at that point I elected to stay out - DMs had no issue with this as some people went in and some did not. I was always within site of a DM or my husband. I have about 70 dives now and I still am not much on swim throughs or overheads and haven't had any DM argue with me when I tell them on a briefing that I'll go over or around, whichever is appropriate. They always point the way for me and then lead whomever else through.